To think jamming a 22 month old in her room won't help?

[Stillhopingstillhere]

My friend has a dd who is nearly 2. She has never been great with sleep but apparently it has got worse because now she gets out of bed over and over and over again and wakes my friend and her dh and their older child up.

My friend told me that they have resorted for the last few months to wedging the door handle so that her dd can't get out. Her dd then bangs on the door and screams for anything up to two hours before more often than not going to sleep on the floor behind the door. They've tried stairgates but she just climbs over (also climbs out of her cot). I suggested to said friend that possibly wedging her dd in a pitch black room maybe wasn't helping as her dd now gets hysterical even before bedtime. God knows I know how horrific it is with lack of sleep, my own ds didn't sleep through until he was nearly 4 but aibu to think effectively locking your dc in will not help?! I think I would get hysterical if I was shut in a dark room and no one would come. Friend describes her as "naughty". They had a very very placid first child who slept through at 5 weeks so I think the second one has shocked them a bit.

So aibu to think it's just wrong to shut a 1 year old in their room and then ignore them and also does anyone have any suggestions as to what else they could try? I have suggested a few things that helped ds but don't know if they've tried. Do think they're at their wits end. I did tell my friends did not agree with what she was doing, and that I don't think her dd is naughty - she's just got into a terrible bedtime routine which has now been made worse.

My dd who is 2.9 still wakes in the night. We have a lindam tall safety gate in her doorway so that she can not get up and wander into the bathroom or go into her brother (her bedroom is in between the two).

It is really frustrating that she still wakes up. I am trying all the gentle techniques I know. They will work eventually as they did with my ds. It's hard but I would never, ever leave my dd to cry it out, all alone in a dark room and cry herself to sleep on the floor. This is just cruel.

I am not a fan of the cry it out method but from your description OP, your friend is not going in to return, soothe and then leave quickly. If your friend was my neighbour, I would be seriously considering a phone call to the local health visitors or social services. This has been going on for months. Your friend is neglecting her daughter's needs at bedtime and the child is simply learning that when it is dark, no matter how hard she cries, no one comes. That poor child.

I say this as a mother whose ds did not sleep consistently through in his own bed until he was just three (by which point we had a newborn). I have now had over 5 years of night time wakings. But I do not stop parenting when the sun goes down. Is there a family member of your friend you could talk to? Do you know her mum?

Something here as got to change and if she continues, your friend may well find that she gets a knock from ss on her door. Maybe they can give her the help she needs.

Let me make this clear. I use a stair gate on the door to stop my dd getting into places she shouldn't be before one of us gets to her. We do not use the gate to trap her in all night. When she wakes, we go in and settle. I would not advocate using a stair gate to keep a child locked in their room, only to stop them wandering in the middle of the night.

I used a stair gate across ds's room as did everyone I know.

Hardboiled my son is very nearly two and can't reach the handle on his bedroom door. would you find that an issue?

It's no different from a child in a cot if there was a house fire, they wouldn't be able to get out.

Mummymeister I think most of us on here have pointed out we are sleep deprived ourselves! But are choosing different methods to get through. I tend to cuddle my toddler back to sleep or bring her into bed with us - not ideal I know.

It's already been pointed out that the police and ss would be concerned about this. People are concerned that a young child is being locked in there room and left to scream for up to two hours, the op has asked for suggestions to give to the mum, and people are doing that. It's a million miles away from judgey.

Yes we've all done things when tired which we have regretted. I let my dd cry herself to sleep once, I still haven't forgiven myself. But this has been going on for months. It can't be written off as poor judgement from a sleep deprived mum.

LST, if you were shutting him in his room whilst he was crying for you on the other side of the door for long periods of time then yes I would.

most people who use a stair gate use one to keep their child safe.

Absolutely hardboiled. Stair gates are often called safety gates because that's why you install them, to keep your child safe. They should be used to stop a child getting into a room or situation that would be unsafe.

There is nothing that should be used to trap a very small child in their bedrooms at night no matter what the reason. I do agree that we are all capable of making stupid decisions when we are very sleep deprived but this has been going on for months. They may well be desperate but surely they must see that this is not working. And I do wonder how how the child was when they first started doing this.

So OP it is very difficult to advise you in what to do. What your friend is doing is wrong. You know this and you have tried to talk to her but to no avail. Would she accept a book recommendation? I can highly recommend "The No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley (£7 appx on Amazon). If she persists, I suggest a phone call to the local Health Visitor team.

This is from Dr Green 'Toddler Taming which I think is a very sensible book.The idea is teh door is just a bit open but not enough to let teh child get out.It really is no different to a stairgate or a cot.They are all about containment. You don't want a 2 yr old wandering round teh house at night while you areasleep.

What about co-sleeping or having the cot in the parents' room for a while until the LO stops being terrified then when he/she is ready try again with them in their own room? My DD is 23 months, she sleeps in a 3 sided cot-bed pushed up against out bed.

IMHO I think that it helps to try to make the LO feel secure first and foremost then work from there. Any behaviour modification done now when the LO is frightened may be destined to fail.

Sorry hootshoot but it does come across as judgey when someone says they had the same problem with their baby but are so clever that they managed to solve it by doing X. This is not a thread about the OP's child. she has already made her mind up that this is not a good thing. this is about a friend. I think that if someone is your friend then what you need to do is offer them physical, practical help to show them how things can be different. and ringing social services? really? bit OTT and guaranteed to make the friend run a mile rather than seek help. Finola1 "there is nothing that should trap a child in their room at night" yes there is. its called a stairgate. you put it across the door to stop your sleep walking/half a sleep child from falling down the bloody steep stairs that you cant stairgate right outside their door and breaking their necks!

meister, you clearly have not read my posts properly. I use a tall stair gate on my dd's bedroom door. To stop her wandering into the bathroom or into her brother which I have clearly stated. I use it to stop her wandering in the the very, very short time it takes for me or DH to wake up, get out of bed and get to her room. Of course there is nothing wrong in using a system to keep a child safely in their room.

But such systems should not be used to keep a very small child screaming in their room for two hours every night until they fall asleep. And letting this go in for months so that the child is now scared to go into their room. This is not about safety.

And in a previous post I did make a practical suggestion by recommending a book that the OP might consider passing on to her friend.

But mummymeister, don't you think its a worry that this little girl is being left to cry for up to two hours and that this has been going on for months? If this was my friend I would be worried too. I guess I'm reading the responses differently to you. I've seen suggestions for help rather than smug responses.

I don't think locking a child in a room is a good idea at all. But I do sympathise with people whose children won't sleep. She should get some books out the library on how to deal with this and try some of their methods. If people have the patience to sit up half the night on a regular basis waiting till their DC falls asleep well good for them. It wouldn't be something I would have been prepared to do without trying everything else.

YANBU

The parents aren't used to a poor sleeper because their first wasn't one.

I've had two poor sleepers and would never dream of such lazy shitty parenting.

I'll bet in a few years they'll be wondering why is my kid scared of the dark and anxious etc. ridiculous.

And to add a practical suggestion - one I've made many times - is to sit with the toddler until they sleep then do gradual withdrawal so they get used to you being further away. It takes a little effort but worth it.

oh no...I wish somebody talked to parents about babies and toddlers brains and stress responses..can you imagine the cortisol load going through a child who is trapped in a room trying to get out?...the short term impact is not great - distressed child, getting scared to go in the the room at bedtime - undermining the bond with their parents etc...but the long term impact if this persists is devestating..the cortisol receptors in the brain are likely to become flooded and not develop properly, meaning a reduced coping ability for the rest of that persons life...it could even result in the hippocampus and hypothalamus not growing properly, which effect memory, concentration, and information processing. Where will this child find a base for comfort and secure attachment?
In my opinion it is so much better to cuddle a child to sleep, filling them with oxytocin and helping them sleep contentedly and deeply secure in their relationship with you, than to scare and reject them in this way. Leaving a 2 hours of frightened screaming is neglectful, however tiring and difficult it is to respond.

I wonder if you or a family member would babysit for a night occaisionally to let them get some rest?
Would they accept some help from a health visitor or homestart volunteer?

you think if your kid died in a fire in your house you'd give a flying shite what you were charged with? What an odd thing to post. I doubt that was SS's actual objection to it.

ovenbun, well put. None of us would like our OH to do this, and we could 'rationalise'.
No matter how sleep-deprived, there is no excuse.
The parental bed is not such a sanctuary that they need to abuse their child's emotions in order to preserve it.

I didn't mention my own child to be smug, I mentioned it because I sympathise! I meant it in a I can totally see how you could end up being desperate enough to do this especially if you have an older one who is also being disturbed. We were lucky in that we didn't.
I wouldn't say I'm judgey but I am concerned simply because she's a really lovely little girl and also I think my friend must be at the end of her tether to jam her in the room.

The difference with stairgates IMO is that you can see the child and the child can see out, surely this is less stressful than being full on shut in.
I've texted my friend mentioning the above book, just saying I've seen it advertised on a parenting site as being helpful.
I just don't think the current system is helping anyone and not does my friend really, she just doesn't seem to know what else to do.

I can see how your friend is at her wits end. I have been pretty desperate myself at times. For me it stems from needing a good night's sleep to actually do the job I am paid to do the next day. Not to mention that somehow very young children who do not sleep through are labelled as "problem sleepers". The message there is that if your child is over the age of 12 months and not sleeping through, you have done something wrong. You, as a parent, have created a problem sleeper. We co slept frequently and how many people still call this "making a rod for your own back"?

The Elizabeth Pantley book really helped me with my son. In fact, I might have a re read in case there is anything I have forgotten now that it is my dd who wakes in the night. My ds is now five and sleeps really well (except for when he has a bit of a temperature). He knows that if he wakes in the night, he is allowed to come to us for a cuddle. But he very rarely does. I think because he knows where are always there, he doesn't actually need to come find us. I hope my muddled through approach has worked in the long run.

I wish your friend well. As a previous poster suggested, no harm in a trip to the library to check out the books in toddler sleep.

PeppiNephrine my post was 100% true of what SS said i was sat by my friend at the time and this was leading on from the entrapment and child endangerment reasoning.

Stair gates are totally different IMO if the door is open as they can see out and are not being confined as such. My DS never slept through until 4 we were lucky as he played in his room mostly, the one time we were at a friends who had a stair gate he jumped over it (at the top of a tiny set of stairs thankfully) so we never even considered one for home.