to be hacked off with our 'lodger'

[lessonsintightropes]

DH and I have a lovely, dear friend that we are extremely fond of. Let's call him Bob.

Bob met DH and I when we all worked for the same company about 6 years ago. I have changed jobs a couple of times since then and DH once. We kept in touch with him after his divorce a couple of years ago, although this meant losing contact with his wonderful (and much put-upon, ex-for-a-reason) ex wife.

Bob has intermittent mental health problems. We have (through connections) got him a couple of jobs, both of which he left on not great terms, with some reputational fall out for DH and I.

He also (as a foreign national - US - is not entitled to benefits) has stayed with us for a couple of months here, six weeks there.

He and DH met up tonight and DH informed me via text (!) that Bob was coming to stay in our spare room (again) for a while. I arrived home to find DH and Bob eating pizzas and watching Steven Seagal movies in the living room, which I was a bit pissed off about as I hate Steven Segal and I haven't had face to face time with DH for five days because of work travel commitments on both sides since Sunday.

We only got married 6 months ago and are TTC at the moment and to be a selfish cow could do without him in our house really; I think by trying to be nice we are enabling him to stay in a position of dependency and not face up to his problems. However it would be a blue day in hell before I saw him on the streets.

Advice? What would you do?

PS not to drip feed we have both a spare room and a loft conversion so plenty of space; however when he's feeling particularly low he sleeps in the living room as he feels safer there but he is a) a stinky feet person so our room to live and eat in smells disgusting and b) this is the only shared social space in the house and it is massively irritating not to be able to use it.

You are very kind people to have him but he needs to face up to things. Does he need help for his mental health issues? You mustn't let him sleep in your lounge - you don't wanna come down to that in the morning!

a) your DH should have discussed this with you before offering the invite.
b) make a rule that he is not to sleep in the living room under any circumstances - you will provide him with a bed and you expect him to use it.
c) agree a time limit with your DH and stick with it.

If you are TTC now, are Bob and your Dh expecting this arrangement to sporadically continue once you have a baby in the house? Set your boundaries now, before you are a pregnant/new parent with raging hormones and sleep deficiency.

Give him a deadline. "You will need to find somewhere else to stay by x date, I'm sorry we can not accommodate you beyond that." If he's asleep on the sofa, wake him up and send him up to his room. "DH and I would like to spend some time together Bob, can you give us some space please." You need to be blunt with people like this or he will keep take take take from you.

Agree your DH is BU not talking about it to you, for sure, and that you need an end time for him staying.

You sound lovely, but you shouldn't hold yourself responsible for him.

You've already gone above/beyond to help him out in the past, and the Steven Seagal thing is just beyond the pale, you poor thing

I presume if you still like him that you don't think he's doing it 'on purpose' with manipulative intentions? But do you think he's come to see you as a bit of a security blanket to hide under in times of stress?

Does he have any ongoing professional support for his MH problems? And does he keep up with any medications/contact with them etc?

Yep sorry the Steven Seagal thing was slightly tongue in cheek but I just wanted to come home and spend time with DH without rubbish on TV.

We love Bob dearly but both recognise he needs to move on and we are either a) helping him to stay in London unsustainably which doesn't help him get to where he needs to be, which is a situation where he can sort himself out and/or b) a sticking plaster solution because his long term planning is rubbish.

It's so frustrating - the two times before when he lived with us it looked like he had a plan to sort himself out but it just hasn't worked out. Moving back to the US isn't really an option as he's lived here for most of his adult life, but I'm getting to the point where I think he might need to hit rock bottom without us acting as a safety net in order to move forward. Does that make sense?

Oh and I laid down the law about sleeping on the couch, so it's not an immediately irritating situation as long as he does as agreed.

Store the sofa cushions in your room every night .

I was only joking with my serious Steven Seagal sympathies, I knew you meant it tongue in cheek

Thing is, in your own home you can sleep where you like if you can't be arsed to go up to bed, but he's a guest, and has maybe forgotten his manners a bit because you make him feel so at home.

If you think your hospitality is stopping him from helping himself then maybe it is time for him to have a go standing on his own two fee (unless his MH problems are serious, and then he'd need professional intervention?)

Bob has 6 months to find a work-sponsored visa or he will need to leave because Bob entered here on a tourist visa. Even if Bob finds work-sponsored visa or EU girl of his dreams to marry Bob will need to return to the US for entry clearance. This is not your problem.

He is American so you need to stop being so English and so bloody English about money and tell him, 'You stay in the spare room and the rent is XYX/month (include bills in this). We need it by X or you need to find another place to crash, man,' and stick to it.

You just say, 'You stay in the spare room and you pay us X by Y or you need to find another place to crash,' and don't feel bad about it.

If your husband tries to go all mug English about it you just talk over him because Yanks are used to this.

The price is this, cash, need it now, you in spare room, my problems are not yours, pony up or get out.

Believe me, no Yank, and I am one, but have lived in Scotland for nearly 12 years, would put up with non-paying loafers without exchange. Sorry but they just don't do it because most can't afford it.

Tabulate it all, water, leccy, food, lodging and the you tell him, 'This is what you're due, we need it by X or you need a new place to crash. Need is by close of play Y, ok.'

If he doesn't stump up, you just go there and show him the door. Just street him.

Harsh words/solution there expat.

There must be a middle way between that and not saying anything.

Although the OP doesn't say what MH probs he has, it could be that he only crashes on their floor when he's at his most vulnerable.

Presuming he's a 'typical Yank' might isolate him a bit more than the OP's prepared to when she loves and cares for him.

Helping him to help himself (and get outside support) is very different than cutting him free with the risk of him drowning.

Oh, god, reading the responses here, STOP BEING SO BRITISH WHEN IT COMES TO MONEY!

Just stop!

Here is the bill, you have till X to pay up and then street. Just street and leave H with his gaping English hole of mugness.

I still have to police DH, a Scotsman, about being a mug.

No, I need this amount of money and I need it now or you street.

Believe me, as a naturalised Yank it blows my mind how people take the royal piss here, don't even offer to pay, no one says a word, but you call them out on it and they pay up or don't. I can't imagine doing that to my British friends, not even offering or bringing gifts or offering service in return for stay. It is just Not.Your.Problem.

OP doesn't sound that bothered about the money though, more concerned about the lack of privacy, smell and open endedness of it all.

Although expat seems harsh, I kind of agree. Sounds like he's taking the piss.

Agent this person, unless he is entitled to British nationality via a parent, is a loafer. He must find an employee-sponsor or a British or EU bride, and he'd better do so soon, and she has to fit strict criterion, earning in excess of £18k/annum and have savings of in excess of £6000, or he cannot stay here because if he is on spousal visa he must claim no public fund for 6 years, pay fees in excess of £1500, and demonstrate community service to gain permanent residency.

This is reality.

Contrary to Tory spin it is hard to gain permanent residency to Britain. The rules have become tighter and tighter and I have watched them do so, from when I came here in 2002 and married my Scottish husband, to give birth to 3 British children and jump through the hopes to become a British national myself. Back then, it was permanent residency visa was after only 1 year married to a British national and free of charge, nationality after 3 years and again, free of charge. It was all done by post then, too. Times have changed!

But even so, I came to apply for British passports for my 3 and the eldest's was queried and thrown out, as she was born before my permanent residency, and claimed her Britishness through her father, in contrast to the other two. We had to supply additional information, to prove she was in fact entitled to be British by right of her married father, on top of all the documents we sent. We had no such bother with the Americans, who promptly issued a Certificate of Birth Abroad, a passport and a SSN/NI number.

I can see how him staying for weeks on end maybe crept up on the OP before she had time to set up him paying his way etc.

If it was only temporary it'd be easy for the light at the end of a tunnel to seem closer than it was.

But caring for someone and not wanting to make them feel unwelcome when they're vulnerable doesn't mean you're a mug.

There's no way I would have booted out the person when I was in a similar situation to the OP, and I can't stand being around other people.

Sometimes making sure they're safe is worth more than the cash (unless the OP thinks he's taking the piss which is totally different).

Reminds me of the film "You Me and Dupree"!!

I don't really understand Bob's visa situation - however the OP does say that he's lived in the UK most of his adult life, which sounds like something different to a tourist visa. Perhaps it's connected with his marriage? Sounds unusual at any rate.

X-posts with you expat, I don't know, I just can't see him being there in legal or financial terms.

Of course he might be taking the piss big time, but the OP loves and cares for him regardless of his whiffy feet, and I get the feeling from the way she writes that she wants to see him OK on his own rather than just out of the house.

Dh is fizzing on the phone. Covering the mouthpiece, swearing, 'It's some bastard in Belfast, doesn't think I am Scottish nor my bairn for having sent in my birth certificate?! WTF does he think I am playing at being British, the haverin' cunt?' and I was telling him to shut up and just play along to get her the passport. We wound up having to go through to Glasgow, 2 hours away, to get it so believe me, it is not an easy thing for non-EU people to rock up and get anything.

Easier than saying, 'Hey, you are due me this. Cash point is there.'

If he has a British parent he might well be entitled to stay as long as he likes.

If he has one Canadian parent who has a British parent he might also be entitled to stay as he likes.

If he had a British or EU wife and lived long enough in the UK he might also be entitled to stay as long as he likes.

If he has or had an EU mother or father, depending on the nation, again, he might be entitled to stay as long as he likes on an EU passport.

My mother had a French mother. There was fortune enough that she was entitled to French nationality and now, when she comes to the UK, she uses a French passport and ditches my father in the non-EU queue.

My father has two passports himself. He only got one because he wanted to travel to Cuba without bother.

The fact is, the mother fucker needs to pay up and the OP needs to tell him to pony up because her other half is being a wet girl's blouse about it.

And, until a few years ago, some were entitled to Irish nationality via a grandparent, making them EU nationals.

You and your dh need to be in agreement and present a united front. Hopefully dh will rethink things after sleeping on it. If agreed while drinking no terms will have been discussed (or can be remembered) so get in there quickly with the rules , an end date and with funding out your friends plan and how realistic it is.

Do not get involved with helping him to get a job or anything else like loaning money. If he can't hack it looking after himself then it's time to be realistic about his options and you two need to be real friends and help him see the reality.

Finding out! Not funding out your friends plan!

I actually think Bob has played you. Rather than asking you both he chose his moment when out drinking with your dh. Now dh may have felt awkward (suggesting Bob played you) or dh didn't even think to ask what you thought. Hopefully it's the former and dh is apologetic about this on waking but he needs to stop acting unilaterally. Would you invite someone to life with you without asking dh first?

And please note - Bob has money to go out drinking. You'll soon see his priorities when you ask Bob about his plans. Note genuine gratitude on his part and efforts to minimise disruption to you and ensure a short -very short- stay. I fear you won't see this though.

Have you written about him before?