If we are all in this together, what cuts have the rich suffered?

[Grennie]

I know mumsnetters seem to be better off than average. So just want to point out that in 2012 the mean national average wage is £29,900. The median was £20,000. And only 10% of people earned £50,500 or above.

So what cuts have this 10% of people suffered?

you I was ee formulating the question, not having a go. I am in this much hated 10% myself.

Yes, creating jobs is indeed one thing that people do to get the economy out of a hole.

High income doesn't equal rich.

Rich to me is lots of wealth and assets, there is very little tax on these.

I came here to say 2 things that CHJR has already said:

"We had a thread last week by the way that pointed out that most benefits (eg housing) go to people who are working full-time, and so should be viewed as subsidies to the employers that pay their workers less than a true living wage. [...]

...children and old people starving in the streets, and believe me, every day I see it as a direct and priceless gain to me and my children that we don't have that here."

Yes. This.

I am btw counted as a net contributor. Here is what I don't think is fair: that other people working full time, to the benefit of their employer (if private sector) can't be paid to recognise that and have the dignity of a true living wage; or, if public sector, they are working to the benefit of us all, and similarly they should have the dignity and security of receiving a fair living wage formally through their salary, not by having to apply for hand outs here and hand outs there.

It's housing, isn't it. Bastard housing costs that have skewed the whole system.

heads - I agree we are interdependent.

but someone who invests their own time and efforts, to create a company, create work, is more useful to the country than someone who applies for a job in the same field and gets it.

My employer has just adopted the living wage including in all subcontractors, cleaning firms, etc. about bloody time. I was shocked it was even controversial.

The living wage campaign would be something that responsible employers could get behind. I know small companies feel they can't afford it, but I am not sure that is always true.

But aris a lot of that take is because you have five dcs. Not making a judgement on that but a family with one dc will take a lot less.

Our family income is £70k and we are not 'rich' by any financial means! £70k isn't a huge salary in London/ south east.

Low interest rates benefit those people who need to take loans/mortgages and are a disadvantage to those with capital in the bank. Older rich people living off the income from their savings have less income than they would have had in the days of 14% interest rates.

I could have one child and still feel that I could contribute more. I have never really begrudged paying tax, even before children

One of our children is a stepson .

maybe giving more to charity would be the solution?

In fact if I had just one child I would feel rich and would want to pay more tax.

I am not going to discuss charity as that is private, however as someone who doesn't ever have to really limit my options because of money ( apart from having to work rather than being a SAHM). I feel very guilty that those on less are struggling to pay their tax burden . There are also many families who would not really benefit from charity but would from having to pay less tax .

Housing costs are insane. My neighbours are retired, but were a hospital porter and a SAHM on one side and a transport foreman and SAHM on the other. Steady, respectable jobs, but not high earners. Now a house on our street costs £250k for a 3 bed semi - too big a mortgage for most couples to have a SAHP and you'd need at least one "professional" salary.

London and SE costs are even more insane.

aris may be you are right. but DP & i have both lost parents in the last decade and watched our friends have families while we worked and gave up all our free time for sick parents, dying parents, breaved parents. etc etc. ....while our younger siblings largely avoided responsbility to our parents to help them when they needed someone... and started their own families..... so we have even more slack to take up........

so i am content to pay my current share of taxes but really want to focus on DP & I and us creating our family, otherwise it wont ever happen.

i have had enough of being reponsible for others and taking up other slack at the cost of having my own family.

Of course we need job creators. But job creators also need people to work for them and grow their business. We need more social enterprises too. I find it hard to take a perspective which judges different members of society in terms of their worth or 'usefulness' to the country. I'm not sure that a sole trader is more useful than a nurse, or a restaurant proprietor is more useful than a judge or that bankers like Bob Diamond are more useful than firefighters.

To be honest, I don't think these conversations about inequality are really focused on couples earning good salaries, of small business owners working hard. The real inequality lies in the impact of massive, unearned wealth.

I'm cross now - I did the tax calculator and on a combined income of £33,000 which we are, we apparently pay more than we take out. Marvellous.

Youare we are supporting and caring for elderly parents so I sympathise. However people need to have families , I am the last person to criticise anyone for having a family

eetracey what makes you cross? Your income is above average. We are in real trouble if people resent paying in more than they take out when they are above the average national family income.

I'm sure you don't feel rich, but the facts are there that you are better off than most.

Heads I agree about the very very wealthy and I wish we had the facts on tax avoidance, but I have a feeling that if no tax was avoided at all, we could cancel all the cuts so far and still come out ahead.

Heads - which is why my comparison was only with the same field.

It is so hard to dodge tax, or play the system, honestly.
Or maybe our accountant is just not very good?
We've just sold part of a business and will have to pay tax next year on money we won't even get for 3 years as part of the deal. We were told this was done to tighten past loopholes.

My dh takes home about 7.5 k a month. He is anaerospace consultant. Consultancy work can be risky as you are basically freelance. He was in armed forces for years. Its laughable that he is doing work that armed forces personnel would have been doing, but cutbacks/ redundancy mean no senior staff left.
Yes its a great income, but he works damn hard, long hours and away fom home.
High income people have to give give, what more can government take off them?

What always makes my mind boggle is that we were better off before my DH's wage rose just above the 50k.

I can clearly remember fantasizing about such a vast amount of money, I thought we'd be rich beyond our wildest dreams with that salary.

Fantasy is where it stops. Reality is that once the taxman has taken his share, pension etc then we just about cover mortgage, utilities and food for a family.

I agree that this 'top 10%' is misleading and the bottom of the 10% are heavily squeezed. BUT I am grateful that we are in the position we are in. I just need to budget, budget, budget to make sure we don't sink into financial chaos.

aris I certainly was not criticising my friends for having families - it was just hard to watch them getting on with normal life.

our parents were not old - just unlucky. DPs mum died at 50 when we were late twenties then my DF became paralysed.

I am criticising siblings for not making time to help their parents and seeing it as DP and mine job to do everything! but that's another thread...

Is a combined income of £33k above average, that is £16.5 each?

Airs, not if both are full time. I was assuming eetracey wasn't working full time-apologies if I am wring to assume that

I don't see it as an above average income at all.