If we are all in this together, what cuts have the rich suffered?

[Grennie]

I know mumsnetters seem to be better off than average. So just want to point out that in 2012 the mean national average wage is £29,900. The median was £20,000. And only 10% of people earned £50,500 or above.

So what cuts have this 10% of people suffered?

You sound very bitter OP.

What is it you want really? Do you want everyone who has more than you to have it taken away from them.

People with more get no help or consideration from this government.

Society needs the few at the top far more than it needs the masses to be so large at the bottom.

50-100k had a reduction in childcare vouchers as well as loss of CB, as ceevee said.

I think NI was increased, or the cap removed, as well.

The limit on the size of pension pots before they are taxed has also reduced.

Starting income for higher rate tax has not gone up in line with other tax bands.

I can quite believe that. My sis who is unemployed and lives with my parents has far more to live on than we do and my DH earns just over £100k.

No not bitter at all. Fed up of well off people complaining about the poor actually.

You also seem to assume that the people earning £50K - £100k will inherit a lot - it doesn't follow that because you are sucessful that means you come from wealthy parents. It also doesn't follow that because you have earned a lot during your life time (and paid tax on it when you earned it, paid tax when you bought a house with it etc), that your children will automatically be high earners.

We are in this bracket - DH earns in that area, when I'm not on mat leave, I earn just under, but this year, even with me having a baby by csection, we still are paying out more in tax than we are costing the system. So long as there are a lot of people paying more in than they get back, the system will work fine. Problems start when you have too many people taking more out of the pot than they put in.

What well off people complaining about the poor? What complaints are they actually making?

With the removal of personal allowance, the marginal tax rate for £100-120k is 65%.

Anyone earning over £100k (unless they have 10+ kids all in state education) is likely to be a net contributor to the country and pay more than their "fair share".

Why the bitterness against the people who contribute financially?

I have no bitterness against anyone well off. I do wish people would stop poor bashing. So many well off people defend outrageous cuts that are happening to poor people.

As well as not necessarily having a second home, people earning more than £50k a year may not inherit anything to be taxed. Just because they've got a higher than average income doesn't mean that they are from a wealthy family. It doesn't even mean they have any personal wealth (many just have plenty of debt that they use their salaries to pay off).

I also don't understand why the OP is so upset that people on higher incomes haven't suffered any great 'cuts'. When people don't receive much in the way of benefits, the only way to take things off them is to raise taxes.

The government keep lowering the HRT threshold too, so people are paying 40% on more of their income. Higher earners may also buy more stuff that is subject to VAT, so the increase in that means they pay more tax (note: this is absolute rather than relative to their income level).

As far as I can tell, 'poor bashing' is not something that is confined to those on higher incomes. In fact, in any debates about cuts, it seems the people who most begrudge others their benefits are those who narrowly miss out on them.

And everyone regardless of income level hates paying tax. It's a necessary evil, but that doesn't mean you have to enjoy doing it.

CB and tax allowances.
As a SAHM with DDs over 12- Labour took away my NI.

If DH dies young, I shall be seriously broke.

wow where do they come you with average wage its twice what i earn

I'm not sure what you class as "well-off", but I don't know anybody who agrees with the frankly horrific cuts that are happening to people, regardless of how much they earn.

DH earns about £75k gross. I think about 50% of that goes straight away in deductions (tax, NI, student loan.) He gets no annual leave or sick pay either.

In contrast, until 2.5 years ago he earned £24k, and in the years before that significantly less. I've always earned slightly above minimum wage. To be honest, I really don't agree with the classification of a "rich person" or a "poor person", it can be very fluid & certainly subjective.

Oh, & goodness no, neither DH or I stand to inherit anything!

Also, it's always a bit silly talking about the top 10% of the country by income as if it's a homogenous group. It is the income decile with the widest variation by an enormous amount. It includes people on £50k a year (which might look like a fortune when you earn £10k, but doesn't necessarily make people 'rich' in the traditional sense) and people with an income of millions (who are 'rich' by anyone's standards). It makes very little sense to talk about these people as if their circumstances are comparable.

But people on higher income HAVE suffered cuts in terms of paying far more tax. I lost my personal allowance (£9.4k), child benefit (some £2.5k) and my top tax rate went up to 50% - costing me £10-20k more a year. So my take home income probably fell by £30k. Of course I realise what remains is still much higher than average but much of that is committed to costs like mortgage and school fees that are not easy to cut quickly so the impact on my standard of living has been pretty hefty. We've needed to make marginal savings in many areas to try and live within our lower budget.

I completely understand that me cancelling my daily paper is not the same order as someone on benefits trying to pay their gas meter - but wanted to challenge Grennie's assumption that the rich haven't suffered.

Child benefit gone, that is all for us.
It is insane that we miss it, but we do.
I know that merits the world's tiniest violin.

Okay, maybe I am being unreasonable.

Before the recession and cuts began, my DH was working in a public sector job earning quite (cough) a lot more than £50k. Now he brings home about around £1000 a month on a zero-hour contract which could be ended at any time. Whereas I do agree that the poor have been disproportionately affected, some of the rich have been too.

The term "Rich" is a relative term it means different things to different
people. The reality is that in the U.K to be rich or anything attaining to
wealthy probably means assets of over £3-5 million and an anuual income net of tax of about £150k pa. The U.K probably has less than 100,000 of those people "UK NATIONALS NOT RUSSIANS"

I think that everyone who plays the game honestly has been financially impacted to some extent.

But many higher earners have a certain amount of flexibility in how they obtain their money (dividends, bonuses, trust etc) that allows for a large degree of (perfectly legal) creative accounting which helps to soften the blow.

Wow, if i bought home 100k but someone on jsa who lived at home with mom and dad, so don't qualify for hb, had more money than me i'd have to question my outgoings.

Paying half your earnings in tax is a hell of a lot though. It doesn't seem fair to penalize people for working hard an aiming high.

The net contributors of tax do have a right to ask where there money is going dont they? After all they are the ones funding benefits etc whilst rarely getting much in return. And they are still he ones getting sneered at by those that think they deserve everything handed to them. At least in the Scandinavian tax systems everybody benefits from high taxes.Good childcare for all etc.In this this country the attitude is the more you pay in in the less you deserve out. Look at theoutrage when hey suggested free school dinners or everyone. Everything is means tested. There is no thanks for what you have contributed.
It is a pretty screwed system when those earning a lot less have a higher disposable income.

If you are in the £50-£100k bracket I think you get the worst deal. My husband earn between £50 and £70k and I earn between £30-£40k but if you look at our wages slips there is often only a few hundred pounds difference in net income.

We are not well off even if u think so OP.

DH earns just above the bracket u r talking about but we only have 1 wage coming in as DD is disabled and frequently hospitalised so I cannot get a job.

Hardly the life of luxury I think, we pay a fortune every time we have the privilege of going to hospital and in general having a child with disabilities is expensive.

No luxury holidays, expensive cars or anything else, my husbands car cost him 400 pounds. So perhaps u have a very generalised view of those whom u consider well off.

Moomins i agree with what you are saying about creative accounting. it is possible for some at the very higher end of the scale in certain a jobs. But it isn't for most. Those on PAYE have no such luxury. Whereas those who do more manual type jobs or earn tips etc are able to do a bit of cash in hand, pocket there tips etc. so it isn't just those at the top who avoid paying a certain amount of tax.