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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

If we are all in this together, what cuts have the rich suffered?

345 replies

Grennie · 04/10/2013 14:09

I know mumsnetters seem to be better off than average. So just want to point out that in 2012 the mean national average wage is £29,900. The median was £20,000. And only 10% of people earned £50,500 or above.

So what cuts have this 10% of people suffered?

OP posts:
ceeveebee · 04/10/2013 20:40

IHT is also unfairly weighted towards those living in south east and London, where average property price of nearly £0.5m is well in excess of the threshold of £325k. Mortgage usually paid off by time of death (either repaid normally, or through life insurance) and so immediately you are over the threshold even ignoring any other assets.

ArbitraryUsername · 04/10/2013 20:43

But it's not taxing you. You'll be dead. It's taxing what you are passing on to others.

ArbitraryUsername · 04/10/2013 20:45

That difference is not semantics. It's a big difference. The difference between you and someone else is fairly significant.

MoominMammasHandbag · 04/10/2013 20:46

See when I was a young leftie teenager, from a modest background, I thought "Hell yeah, inherited wealth is wrong, tax it to buggery".

Now I am middle aged and pretty comfortable, I am outraged that my children may not see the benefit of all my hard earned.

ModeratelyObvious · 04/10/2013 20:51

Chances are IHT will kick in on fewer occasions going forward, because people will generally need care for longer and hence lots of wealth will be used up before death.

Madamecastafiore · 04/10/2013 20:54

Thesaurusgirl DH manages to be at his desk by 7am. We live in north east essex. Really doesn't mean you have to live in London.

drawsofdrawers · 04/10/2013 20:54

Cue the: 'But I've paid my taxes so I want free care paid for by people poorer than me!' comments.

Original poster
Grennie · 04/10/2013 20:54

Those who are well off, always think it is people with more money than them that are rich. I remember Cherie Blair complaining they didn't have much money.

OP posts:
thesaurusgirl · 04/10/2013 20:56

Moomin It's definitely housing that has buggered the economic calculations and where everyone bar the super-rich is feeling the pinch.

Inflation in any other necessary commodity is a bad thing, but somehow in housing it's considered a good thing. So we use up all our income disposing of debt (our own or our landlords) instead of growing the economy.

I've just thought of another one. Interest rates for savings on deposit have been cut. Dramatically. That has harmed the rich, especially those who paid off their mortgages long ago. Ha!

georgettemagritte · 04/10/2013 20:58

Maggietess - I'm afraid that just isn't correct - IHT just simply isn't a tax on you. IHT is a form of transfer tax, which means it's a tax on someone else, on assets being transferred to them as a capital gain - exactly like a capital gains tax on transferred assets. It was even known at one point as capital transfer tax - a better name as it makes it much clearer who is being taxed (your beneficiaries are being taxed on their capital gain).

ChrisTheSheep · 04/10/2013 21:29

We are on about £50k, and do not live in the South East (though we used to). There is no way on this earth we could afford private school!

JessicaLundge · 04/10/2013 21:51

Our household income is over £100k and after we've paid the mortgage on a very modest house in London, and childcare for 3 very small kids, it leaves us with about £600 a month for council tax, bills, food, travel costs, clothes etc.
On paper you'd think we'd be at our second house in Barbados every weekend blah di blah. Well I spend most weekends ebaying the kids' stuff to go towards a holiday fund. Admittedly we've been away twice this year, both times to a caravan in Suffolk.
High rollers? Nah.

daisychain01 · 04/10/2013 21:59

OMG the amount of jealous, twisted thoughts on MN, unbelieveable.

WARNING it is damaging to your health and shortens your life to be so boiling over with envy you have to use your headspace calculating people's worth and getting all hett up about how The Rich live and how unfair life is.

OAPs have been done to death, now The Rich!

CreatureRetorts · 04/10/2013 21:59

The simple fact is that those who are earning middling wages shouldn't need tax credits etc to survive.

But they do because companies get away with paying shitty wages and the cost of living is so high. It is insane.

MadeOfStarDust · 05/10/2013 08:53

To be honest though, those of us on middling wages DO NOT need tax credits to "survive" we need them to live the life we have made for ourselves....

We have plenty of money left over at the end of each month for savings and doing the stuff we like etc, because we have chosen NOT to keep climbing the housing ladder, NOT to have 2 new cars, NOT to go for public school education for the kids, NOT to go on holidays costing £5K up etc - well we did once.....

and we are not anywhere near that £50-£100K bracket..

CreatureRetorts · 05/10/2013 09:06

Where do you live Made? You might have done the right things but some people fall on hard times, they don't have the luxury of being able to move where there are more jobs, they might have many different circumstances. There's no point judging people against your personal yardstick.

Mimishimi · 05/10/2013 09:22

No bonus even if you made money, others lost/wasted a lot.

MadeOfStarDust · 05/10/2013 09:37

I hear what you are saying Creature.. we have had to make some very hard choices after falling on hard times too - I moved 700 miles away from home to get a job -it was not a "luxury" to be able to do so, it was a gut wrenching decision full of fear and trepidation... but it paid off in the end.

I now live in an affluent area of the SW in an area of high employment, and people round us are always whinging about the cost of living and the fact that they have no money left at the end of the month.... but the drive to constantly acquire crap seems to be why they have nowt left....

fifi669 · 05/10/2013 09:51

I actually don't understand people that moan about the government cuts!

Why shouldn't the long term unemployed do a bit of work for their money? I live near Plymouth and I can tell you it's a cess pit of life long claimants. It drives me mental.

Why shouldn't those on disability be assessed to see if they are capable for work? I know people who claim a bad back to not work yet manage to fix cars as a hobby.

Why should people in a larger house then they need get full benefits to pay for it when joe blogs is working hard to pay for his family and can't afford a spare room?

I feel for people that live in London and are still skint on 50k+, down here you'd be minted!

Oh and I say all this as someone who lives in a council house, just me and DS and until a recent pay rise was on 8.4k a year.

I think it's time people stopped moaning, some people are getting less freebies..... Yeah, but they're still freebies. I get tax credits to help with child care and 20pw towards rent. I used to have help with council tax and more towards rent. I accepted the cuts because at the end of the day I'm owed nothing I don't work for. I'm grateful for all the help I do get and will budget according to my means.

Original poster
Grennie · 05/10/2013 09:57

fifi - Because these cuts don't just affect those swinging it. Where I live, most of the housing is 2 or 3 bedroomed. There are virtually no 1 bedroom places, except in a few posh type apartment blocks. Anyone with a small baby, couples and single people are supposed to live in a 1 bedroom place. There simply isn't enough available.

And because of students, rooms in shared houses are actually pretty expensive and all in student areas. What looks sensible on paper, is pretty unworkable where I live.

In terms of disability, assessing whether people are genuine is fine. But given that there is such a high rate of success on appeal, it is clear that wrong judgements are being made.

Long term unemployed doing a bit of work for money - because this, like current work experience, will put people currently employed, out of work. This is already happening. And don't think for a minute charities will want them. Most charities would not be interested in this idea at all.

OP posts:
fifi669 · 05/10/2013 10:17

Housing benefit is still a freebie, just be grateful for what you're given. Couples and single people only need one bedroom, small babies have their own room where I live.

There may be errors in the reassessment system, this will be true of all systems and being relatively young more so in this one. The policy however is sound.

Sainsburys took on a bunch of people on this workfare thing. Anyone good they employed at the end. 90% were bone idle and made it clear they didn't want to be there. It actually means the staff they have taking on babysitting roles. It's an inconvenience.

Original poster
Grennie · 05/10/2013 10:24

No small babies don't get their own room under the policy. And my point isn't about what you need. It is about what exists. Where I live there is a lot of social housing and council housing. Even the flats are 2 bedroomed.

OP posts:
Bowlersarm · 05/10/2013 10:35

I agree with you fifi to a certain extent.

I also think people ain't seen nothing yet with cuts. It's only going to get worse. Has anyone read the article in Money Week 'The End Of Britain'? It may be scaremongering but if so it's done it's job-it's scared me.

Original poster
Grennie · 05/10/2013 10:39

I have been involved in a local FoodBank. We get people visiting who are for example very disabled, but got their benefits stopped while they wait for their appeal to be heard. I think some people have no idea about how much misery these policies are causing.

OP posts:
Theodorakiss · 05/10/2013 10:41

What a ridiculous op. why should people who are so called rich be cut? Presumably they are legitimately wealthy and I for one don't see why I should lose more than half my income because other people need my money. It isn't illegal or immoral to have a good job and savings, just part graft and part the luck of birth. I don't feel guilty and am actually very pleased that people like the op don't benefit from my so called wealth any more.