Why do you think behaviour in schools is so much worse than even 10 yrs ago.

[soul2000]

This is not a joke thread. I am generally interested as to how much the standard of behaviour has deteriated in the last 25 years since i left school.

What amazes me, is that teachers are not shocked when watching programes like educating yorkshire, that just shows how bad the behaviour of some pupils is.

Another shocking thing is that pupils who in my time would have been labeled a menace "ME INCLUDED" are now seen as upstanding pupils.

How has the standard fallen so far and what can be done to re address the balance.

This thread is in support of teachers.

I think staggeringly low expectations are set for children these days, as much by parents as by schools. A child should never feel cold, pressured, humiliated, tired, hungry etc. of course these aren't ideal conditions but a healthy person can cope with them intermittently and grows stronger from them.

Just watched Educating Yorkshire in which that well meaning pastoral head kept letting a boy off numerous detentions because he was his favourite. Then at the end he affectionately said, when the boy mentioned he might like to be an electrician, 'Oh I wouldn't want you doing electrics in my house.' So pastoral care at that school teaches a boy there are no consequences for lousy behaviour and anyway he's unlikely to amount to much. And this was the tutor who was said to be a father figure to the boy.

DS2 has just started at a school that is very strict. You just have to do what's expected, even if you're tired, feel over loaded by homework etc. In four weeks, I've never seen him happier. He stands taller, he looks more enthusiastic and engaged with life. At his gentle dozy primary he was always slouching and moody. Little was expected of him and he felt useless for underachieving. Here it's hard and he's really struggled, but then when he's managed to survive, he's felt so proud of himself.

I have been teaching for 11 years, 9 of them in the same school. I don't think behaviour has deteriorated over that time. The majority of learners in my school are polite, hardworking and helpful. A small minority are not. If you get a few of them in one class it can be difficult but you have to shut down opportunities to misbehave in those sorts of classes by adapting your teaching style.

Those posters spouting disablist spite about inclusion and children with additional needs are part of the problem. My biggest issue in school comes from the entitled children and parents. Those who believe that they don't have to be tolerant or accepting or kind to others. Those who think its okay to call another child names because of their poverty. Those that think its okay to wind up a child with additional needs because it is entertaining.

Massive stop-the-lesson type behaviour is actually easier to deal with because it is so unreasonable you will generally get support quite quickly and the lesson can go on. Insidious nasty low-level stuff is much worse IMO, and it is rarely children with additional needs who are the perpetrators.

So if you believe that standards of behaviour are dropping because of inclusion I think you are an arse and should be removed forthwith and isolated to protect my children from being contaminated by your revolting attitudes. (zzzzz)

Here's my attitude, written in an earlier post:
^PolterGoose of course I am not talking about SN and I think you know that! It's parents who have children without SN that I mean! I am a teacher - why would I refuse to acknowledge that? I work by the SEN Code of Practice. For a start, it would be plain wrong - it would also mean the child wouldn't achieve, would be unhappier / harder to deal with etc etc.
What I'm talking about is those parents whose kids shouldn't have to abide by say, the wearing no jewellery rules. 'My DD likes to wear it cos her Dad gave it to her'. This kind of thing happens all the time. The same Mum is exactly the type who comes in up in arms when the piece of jewellery is lost in the playground.^

I'm not an arse, and I don't have revolting attitudes, as you can see from above. I haven't mentioned inclusion either. Who are you calling an arse then?

I think it's important to differentiate between real inclusion and inclusion in name only with no knowledge, support or understanding. Plenty of the latter still going on and it isn't inclusive by any means, far from it.

I couldn't agree with you more, Anais. There are too many schools which pay only lip service to inclusion. Too many IEPs written in a hurry to meet the deadline which take no account of children's actual needs. Often a SENCo knows hardly anything about SEN, and has had hardly any experience or training in the area.

More 'special attention to my child is needed' stuff on a new AIBU thread entitled 'To think that teacher should make sure 4 yr old has a drink?'

That kind of thing winds me up when teachers have so many ACTUAL needs to deal with in class - e.g. a diabetic child needing careful attention and reminders to have juice/snack etc at correct time, another child needing to be reminded a few minutes before the class moves to another room that this will be happening, another one needing his work checked so that he can have his reward as part of his carefully worked out reward scheme, making sure that the super-gifted mathematician hasn't run out of work and isn't amusing themselves by colouring in the cover of their exercise book, etc.

I remember a lady who volunteered to hear the children read. She kept telling me (when I was teaching a group) to go and help her DGD because, "she struggles with maths", when DGD was working perfectly well.

Quite precious

I can only comment from my own 13 years experience but, yes, I have seen a deterioration in behaviour and attitiude.

I don't have the answers and I really think it's more complex than we can begin to imagine.

Lack of parental support, poor parenting skills, SOME parents being children themselves when they are in the position of bringing up their own children, changes in attitude towards school - some see it as a babysitting service, parents who have had a poor experience themselves of education pass their criticisms and fears onto their children, targets - we've become a nation obsessed with targets and expect all children in year groups make the same progress as each other, thus creating a generation of 'robots', sexually explicit lyrics, TV programmes and a celebrity focused society that puts the glam on being famous and image aware and maybe we have lost the true value of education and don't see it as being a vital part of our life skills.

These are just some of the reasons I think behaviour in schools is so bad.

Children need boundaries and with boundaries comes a healthy sense of fear. It's lost these days. Gone are the days when being in trouble with your teacher meant you were lectured from parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles and even the neighbours! When I was little, it wasn't worth getting into trouble at school because you'd be up s* creek at home if you were!!!

Well, you actually called me an arse a few posts ago. I hadn't even mentioned inclusion. Are you going to retract it now?

zzzzz, Hope subsequently said that "lip-service inclusion" ie not inclusive at all causes problems for everyone. I agree. I've seen it and didn't want it for my child.

Hope,,she calls you an arse because you said "some people like to look for disablism"

It was an utterly arsey thing to say, whatever your views on inclusion.

Oh I missed that. I don't have to look for disablism, sadly.

Seconded..those were arsey words

I said SOME people!!! Not ALL. I also said 'there is plenty of disablism about'.

Sigh...

Many people don't see disablism and that's the real problem.

I am hugely impressed with the way the HQ are now dealing with it compared to a few years ago.

I love it when they link to This is My Child and the specific myths being discussed.

'there is plenty of disablism about'

yes, and some of us are tired of it.

They need to be quicker IMO to step in.

It's not arsey. Some people will find racism where it isn't. Some people will find disablism where it isn't. Some people will find prejudice against people with MH where it isn't (I am certainly guilty of being oversensitive in this regard). I expect that's because of their previous experiences. It does not mean I don't take racism, disablism and any other forms of discrimination and prejudice very seriously. I do. I'm not an arse. Someone who comes out with abhorrent views like those of Doris the troll Is an arse. But of course, I'll defend your right to call me one.

Are you referring to the 4x4 thread Triggles? That post did stand too long.

junkfoodaddict if you think installing a sense of fear makes for an environment conducive to learning then you are sadly mistaken. No wonder this is not working for you and you have seen a deterioration of behaviour and attitudes.

You sound disappointed that parents refuse to collude with your rule of fear and continue to scare their children rigid at home.

If you want to instil a real love of learning why not instead demonstrate the fascination and mystery in a given subject along with a definite assurance of having the best interests of each and every child at heart?