to actually not get why SIL has stopped talking to us since DS was born

[Zara1984]

DH, his parents and his siblings are scattered across the globe. We used to be very very close to his sister. Regular calls, texts, emails and visits.

Since DS was born a year ago she wants nothing to do with us. We used to Skype her monthly and email more regularly than that, and we've heard nothing from her since DS was about 4 months old, aside from the occasional "like" of a picture I post on FB. I email her photos (copying in other family members, friends etc) and ask how she's going. She runs her own business which hasn't been doing so well over the past few years but she used to talk about it with us and we tried our best to support her. I would go in and help her out at work when I visited her.

She and her DP live the fab/hip/cool/edgy life in a trendy city. She's late 30s but has said she's not sure whether/when she will have kids, so I don't think she's jealous of us having DS or anything like that. A couple of her friends have had children recently and she slags them off a bit for moving to the suburbs/not wanting to come out anymore. I'm not a complete new-mum bore I think - I mean I do post photos fairly regularly on FB (2-3 times a month) and email more personal photos round to close family and friends including her. But I'm not one of those forever-updating-about-PFB-types.

When DS was very young we went back home and she came to visit us with her DP, but she spent most of the time working and not wanting to hold DS or do anything with him. She kept calling him "it" instead of his name and it was a bit annoying really. But overall it seemed like a good holiday, when she wasn't working we did get to do stuff together and it was fun. I just don't understand why she's so quiet now? I just can't get through to her. DMIL has said TBH it's just like what DSIL does to her - no replies to emails, calls are very rare (couple of times a year etc).

It makes me sad and I have given up emailing her to set up Skype dates because she never gets back to me. She doesn't reply to DH's few emails either - although it's always been me that was the one setting up Skype dates etc. He's annoyed at her but is a bit like "that's just what DSIL is like". I don't only want to talk about DS to her and bore her with kid stuff, I want to hear about her life, what she's doing, her work, all the stuff we used to talk about. I am worried about her because from what I hear through DPILs her biz isn't going well and DH and I would like to just be there for her and listen, even from a distance.

AIBU to not understand this at all???? Or more precisely, is she BU or am I BU and should just expect this as part and parcel of having kids ie people don't feel like they have anything in common with you anymore? I know it's hard when you're separated by distance too, but I keep in touch with friends in other countries quite regularly (monthly/bi-monthly skypes etc) so it's not THAT hard....

Mooncup DH thought that. And the problem is that the best antitode to her thinking that is to chat to us and hear about all the definite-not-perfectness of our life to shatter that illusion!! If that makes sense.

DH and I have agreed to TTC#2 in the new year and I started thinking again today about DSIL and how if we have another baby we'll never hear from her again!

I totally get the 'withdrawing' from friends and relations with babies, who have had them with relative ease. (But who knows what anyone goes through?).

It must cut to the bone for her if it is fertility issues. My hunch is, that is what it is.

Good idea Dibbler I will suggest that to DH

Why don't you just ask her? All this pussy footing around. If you were that close, then ask her outright, why the silence?

Melika she did ask how long it took us to conceive DS, and I was honest that it was the first month of trying. But I also told her that this was huge relief/suprise to DH because his dad had low sperm count issues (DPILs took a long time to conceive) and he was worried he'd have the same.

birdy because she is very... stubborn. We're close but when it comes to getting her to do things we've always had to go softly-softly on suggesting things. DMIL has tried the direct approach with her and she gets offended and shuts down.

Neither DH nor his family are good at confrontation... I've had to teach DH how to do it for work but he won't do it for personal situations!

I know i will probably get flamed for this but i am trying to be honest. I have to be honest prior to falling pregnant I was extremely selfish. Even though i have always been very happy for friends that had kids. I really felt no real connection with friends that had kids and I had no interest in seeing their kids or holding their new born babies. I used to get really irritated because it felt like they were constantly talking about their kids which I know is normal and I really had no interest. All I wanted was to see my friends without them constantly talking about their kids or what felt like constantly sending me pictures. My preference would have been for them not to talk about their kids at all. So generally I would distance myself when one of my friends first had a baby. But all my friends always knew I was not kid friendly. I was only ever interested in my career, my friends careers and generally adult friendships and socialising. So prior to falling pregnant, when friends have had kids I have probably not been the best friend to them because of how I have been.

I was never bothered about having kids and never felt the urge to have kids way more interested in my next step up the career ladder so I can understand what your DSIL means when she says she is not sure. I was 37 when I fell pregnant.

I guess the point of my note is, your DSIL may be similar to how I was. She clearly has had no interest in other people's kids and is probably very selfish in the same way I was. It may also be that she is under a great deal of stress with her work so she doesn't realise how you feel. If she is similar to the way I was in terms of selfishness, then the best way of getting her to engage is not to talk about the baby and not send her lots of pictures of the baby. What may seem not excessive to you may seem excessive to her. But ultimately your baby is such an most important part of your life, so would you really want to do this? The other tactic was the fact my friends were really straight with me and told me straight. Eg one friend once said something along the lines of "LPP, I know you are not kid friendly but the way you are been is really impacting on our friendship and you are been a selfish twat. I know you will never be giddy about the baby but sort your shit out." Have you tried asking her outright why she is been like this?

OP you sound lovely trying to figure out what's wrong and get contact going again.

I would say 1) it may be fertility issues, or 2) may be a total lack of interest in children. Or 3) yes it may be that she is depressed. I'd put my money on those 3 in that order.

My point of view re: the child thing is this: I have had children easily, and i have struggled (more recently) to ttc too. I am preg. right now. In all total honesty no matter what my stage in life i actually have zero interest in other folks kids Awful. But true. I would never in a million years let the parents know that, and do all the right things regarding cooing and holding etc. But really - inwardly i groan when MIL, for eg. says 'ooh everyone's going to be there ... all the kids'. Blurgh. Bored silly with nappy/nursary/primary school/who can say what/do what yet chat.

So it could be a mixture of the first 2 things.

Either way your best bet is to get DH to approach his brother i think, as you say. Keep child talk right out of the skyping and news, etc, for a good while and hope for the best

LittlePeaPod your thinking of thinking is essentially what DH's view is of the situation

As I said above we haven't been direct because she gets really REALLY offended if family try to insist she should contact them. Probably because DMIL always bangs on about how family is important and she thinks all her kids should live in a 1 mile radius from her place... not all over the planet!!

Never had to make an effort or question anything before about our relationship with her - it always just worked. I know DMIL is now a bit like "welcome to my world Zara" when it comes to DSIL

Thanks fluffyraggies

The problem is probably as well (in terms of me dealing with this), is that to my (and DH's and everyone else's) surprise I am one of those people that is into all the kiddy stuff. Never though it would be me. But I luuuve going to all the playgroups and talking to all the parents about their kids, I love babysitting other people's children, I love love love it all. total loser I know

So if she is just not interested in kids etc I am probably struggling to deal with it more/accept it because I've thrown myself into the whole parenting thing hook line and sinker. So that's probably making me anxious too.

I am not a FB bore about it all though I promise!! Those people wind me up....

Zara unfortunately I didn't see your point regard her getting offended till after I had posted. I can also understand why she would get irritated if your DMIL is always banging on about how family is important. If she is like I think she is that would irritate the hell out of her and if anything push her further away. To someone like that it sounds very suffocating.

Personally though I think a direct approach and talking to her about how this is affecting you (not the family or your DH or your DMIL or the baby) would be good. You ned to get her to see how this is affecting you and her, on a personal level. If she is like I was she probably still won't be that interested in the baby. But knowing she may lose your friendship and you want it to carry on as was prior to baby may be the thing to jolt her out of this. Trust me, she won't even realise how this is making you feel.

My first thought is that she is struggling to conceive. It's awful when someone close to you has a baby and although you're happy for them it's almost unbearable when you're dealing with fertility issues.

Maybe her business is going more badly than you realise and she doesn't want to burden you with things when you have a young baby to care for.

My bet is that there's something going on in her life and for whatever reason she just doesn't want to talk about it.

Thanks littlepeapod. Yes DMIL means well, and I have more sympathy for her now I have DS, but she has a very small world focused on the town she lives in... and she thinks DSIL, me and DBIL's partner should be like her and want to phone/call in on her, the matriarch, every day. So the "family's important" message sends DSIL running a mile!

Yes a direct approach... I know if I just say "I miss you, I miss chatting to you" over Skype she'll know exactly what I mean. It's just I can't even get to her to Skype. Hopefully if DH gives her a buzz/email then we can skype her soon. It would be so much easier to do this if we didn't live countries apart. Direct approach always tougher with distance. But DH doesn't really feel that inclined to visit her if she has no interest in DS ie why put ourselves through the torture of long-haul if she doesn't really want to see him

Arrgh it sucks

Zara, can I tell you about my x SIL?

Initially excited when DD, our second DC was born just before she married DBIL, she began to change how she treated us all as time went on. I was a particular focus for her vitriol, and she would often comment 'oh I not domesticated like wicked / oh I could.t do wickeds job (hcp) I'm more of a career woman / oh I couldn't go out and not drink, I'm not like wicked (we live in a small village and I always made sure one of us could drive if needed when DC were small)
I thought she was a bitch and avoided her.
Turns out she and BIL had agreed not to have DC the. She changed her mind. He didnt.
I cant forgive the way she treated me but I do wish I had known at the time what she was going through.

Since DS was born a year ago she wants nothing to do with us

if my SIL asked me why I avoid them (1) I would have to lie (2) I would be gutted by the topic being raised.

i think you mean well but i don't think you can win this one.

I think you all (well, you and your MIL) sound a little suffocating, to be honest. I would take a step back, stop emailing her. She knows where you are if she wants to get in touch. If it is fertility problems she must be finding it unbearable.

I know it does suck and I can see you and your DHs point. Maybe send her a letter or email explaining how you feel about your relationship. The unfortunate truth is if she is like I was, she probably won't want to Skype because she thinks you will just want her to coo and talk about DS. Awful I know but I remember avoiding things like that because I couldn't be bothered. Like I said, very selfish.

I think the simplest explanation is more probable. The last time you spoke to her she was depressed about her business. Now she is not replying to texts or emails.

Forget about your baby. The chances are it has nothing to do with that. It is far more likely that she is very depressed and can't face talking to anyone. Maybe she has had the baliffs in? Maybe she has gone bankrupt? Maybe she is too ashamed and depressed to reach out to anyone.

I would just phone her and ask how she is. Not in a deep and meaningful way, but just chatty, how are things going. You need to re establish communication. Unless there seems like an opening for it, don't ask her why she has ignored your texts and emails.

Sometimes when we fall pregnant, get married or have a baby we are so excited by the wonderful event and we want/expect everyone else to be as excited, engaged and involved. But, some people just aren't bothered or interested, they want things to stay as they were.

Thanks all. A cheery call or email from DH is the way forward methinks.

I really hope now that none of my emails/messages/texts etc have come across to her as being massive insensitive/overbearing bellend

If you think it likely that her problem is to do with babies then perhaps temporarily stop sending her pics for a while, and don't mention ds. Just talk about adult aspects of life.

Whatever problems she may be having - business, conceiving, social, her dp - she will tell you when or if she wants to.

In the meantime, keep the lines of communication open, even if it means just sending her a link to the latest cartoon on xkcd or something.

Good luck Zara I really hope you get it sorted.

Please let us know how you get on.

Just another option - she may be very embarrassed and humiliated that her business is failing. If it was a frequent topic of conversation before, she may not want to get into it with you now.

A lot of self-employed people (especially men but women can too I've been there ) define themselves and their self worth by their career success. It's not healthy, but there you go.

All the above, plus - when everyone else around you has children and you don't, whether it's by choice or not, once you've had the conversation about Quentin's latest sitting-up/burping/chatting feats, you get very conscious about the brief pause, followed by the bright, 'So! What are you up to, then?' And you feel should be achieving so much more to compensate for the fact that you're not a parent like everyone else.

If your SIL's business isn't going very well, she might feel she's falling short of family expectations on all fronts, and just doesn't want to talk to anyone. I'd second Jux's excellent suggestion: give the baby pics a rest (twice a month is still quite a lot - I get a couple a year from my DSIL and that's plenty) send her the occasional link to something you both find funny, or to some sale bargain you think she should grab. Something that reminds her that she's still her, and you're still you. Not that she's still her, but you're now a new person altogether. It can be tough adjusting to all your friends/relatives suddenly acquiring a whole new role in their lives that you might never have. But most people do adjust - it just takes a little while.