SEN & lack of training for teachers / prospective teachers etc - Should they consider volunteering as a means to access support and training?

[LifeIsFreeStyle]

Hi, It really is my first ever AIBU, so please go easy on me. Not intending the thread as inflammatory - just a genuine question.

There has been lots of debate recently about attitudes and capabilities of schools / school staff towards SEN kids and statements. One aspect of this seems to be a frustration from both parents and teachers at the lack of teacher training available on SEN and disabilities, ASC in particular.

So my question is really, AIBU to suggest that a period of voluntary work with disability organisations might provide the insight and training that will help everyone in the long-run? And by everyone, yes, I do mean everyone including classmates and support staff.

Certainly all in agreement that training is needed then.

(Apologies if this seems abrupt. My DC's are home and running around now).

For those that suggested the LA / EA have a team of specialists that go into schools and offer training and support, possibly on a casework basis, can I say that this already exists in most if not all LA's in regards to ASC at least. However, schools do seem to be reluctant to access their services or implement their advice. I have even heard one HT claim to have had full and comprehensive training and support from one team, however, the team also tell me that they have never heard of him and never met him.

Also, in many LA's, the role of the local special schools have been evolved into centres of expertise with outreach into local mainstreams to support and train.

ASC has so many effective strategies that would also benefit many other SEN's as well as the class as a whole. Many parents have fought to have phrases about staff working with child X must have been given "autism training" or "autism awareness training" written into statements, but too often this seems to fall flat when it comes to putting it into practice.

I totally agree with both roles of SENCO and SEN specialist being developed but that this will certainly fail without affording them time, support and empowerment. The SENCO training has come a long way in recent years but still lacks detail in supporting the family, in classroom techniques and strategy and of course in detailed knowledge of each possible disability. The training is not renewed throughout a career and risks quickly becoming outmoded.

Also, students in their final year of University that have previously shown no interest in working in schools then suddenly apply for teacher training really ought to be questioned thoroughly about their commitment, not just to mainstream children but also to those in more vulnerable groups. I would love to see more PEGC placements within mainstream school "bases" and follow through afterwards into mainstream classrooms. I would also be very concerned if a person applied for teacher training without having first demonstrated some sustained level of commitment to children with disabilities.

Social inclusion equality and integration should be a major aspect of all training.

I'd vote for that tethers.

I have an amazing set up at my school. Me, 5 SEN Teachers, 2 days a week of Ed Psych time, 3 days a week between physio and OT, 1 day a week SaLT, fortnightly visits from ASD Outreach and the Sensory Consortium on call.

It is STILL tricky to pull inclusion off. I think it's partly because of the rigid ofsted schedule. The drive for pace, pace, pace doesn't leave much room for support for children who need downtime or overlearning or broken down instructions etc.

I like tethersend's idea as well.

The problem with 'SEN teachers' delivering training is that the specialist SEN teacher hasn't always had accredited training themselves within the specific area that they are delivering training in.

I would expect a pg cert or diploma minimum in a specific specialism, e.g. an pgcert ASD for teachers delivering ASD training and consultancy ... but some training is rolled out to schools in subjects that the 'consultant' doesn't really fully understand themselves.

Inclusionist is your school mainstream?

Yes, with a 60 place complex needs Resource.

sounds fantastic

Not certain to come at a hefty cost in the long-term. Wouldn't it save on calling in external support; in speeding up diagnosis or assessment of support and statementing to allow access to funding; in staff professional development and pride leading to staff retention and, most importantly, in lifetime outcomes for these children.

higher functioning ASD don't all conveniently meet up at 6pm in the local village hall. Oh but they DO! Admittedly not all, but there are specialist groups and youth groups up and down the country and almost all would be absolutely ecstatic at the offer of support or expression of interest from a teacher from one of their local schools. Most meet once or twice a week or month just for a couple of hours. For those that can't make it there due to work or family commitments, there are also opportunities in personal support work just once or twice a month for an hour or so.

I have got to agree that primary and high schools, in my own experience are absolutely worlds apart in their capacity and approach. To be fair, primary has the luxury of being able to approach from a gentler familial viewpoint. High schools are so busy that it takes so much for a parent to get their child noticed by just one member of staff, never mind the total number of teachers their child will come across during the course of a week's timetable.

When DS2 was in mainstream the SENCo was very poorly trained. It became very clear halfway through yr 2 that mainstream education was not going to work for him so I requested an emergency annual review. Neither his class teacher, SENCo or HT had any idea how to go about it. Or indeed that they existed. This was in an outstanding primary.

I'm not sure about training on the SN's themselves but there absolutely should be training on next steps, support networks etc. For instance there are outreach teams in our area that come in from the SN school to help the MS teachers with specific advice etc. Our school didn't know this existed, neither did we (obviously) & it was only after it had all gone disastrously wrong for him that the Ed Psych thought to mention it.

As I've said on another thread, this is a school that we had been extremely happy with, had a good relationship with, for our eldest son.

The SENCO is also the year six teacher so probably all too much to deal with for one person.

"It is STILL tricky to pull inclusion off. I think it's partly because of the rigid ofsted schedule. The drive for pace, pace, pace doesn't leave much room for support for children who need downtime or overlearning or broken down instructions etc."

Yes, this is key. Fixed ideas about children's rates of progress do nothing to help the issue, and change will not be effected until the OFSTED framework becomes less rigid or league tables are done away with

Inclusion is one if those things that is something that a school can talk the talk on, but very rarely pull off depending on the severity of the need. I do wonder if sometimes the problems arise from a lack of specialist SN schools.

I currently run a primary resource unit- in fact we have 3 in our school- early years, kS1 and KS2. I've done this for the last four years and every year I get 'new' special needs I've never taught before, or children with the same special needs who actually need very different things-two children with a diagnosis of ASD may be completely different!
I don't get a SEN allowance and I'm funding my own place on a masters with a focus on SEN, I read as much as I can but mainly I rely on the specialists from the local SEN and EBD school and the local authority to give me ideas and support. As the cuts are hitting there are less and less of these teachers and less and less support for us. Oh and our resource classes are under threat as they cost a lot of money in terms of extra teachers when children could be placed back in class with their 1:1 support there. No thought of the long term saving we make for the school system in general.
I would love more training (especially if someone else could pay for it and I could do it in school hours!) but it's just really hard to access and many schools just don't have the budget any more to send you on lots of courses. Basically I love what I do but it's hard, not very glamorous and feels very low down on the list of priorities for education generally.

StillSlightly - Isn't that just defeatist segregation? !!!

I think the message of "inclusion" is a wee bit skewed. As a society in Britain, we have come a very long way in a short time with language moved from "inclusion" to EQUALITY and INTEGRATION. In other words, pastoral / social lessons and, most importantly, school culture should be towards acceptance as equal; celebrating difference as just a small piece of the pie; help them to see the CHILD first and disability second. Then you might start to get somewhere.

BTW: Most disabled children have multiple able and mainstream siblings, cousins, family friends, relatives and neighbours - THESE are the children that tend to accept equality first and these are the children who have the key to integration. Watching adults struggle with this concept is what undermines any potential for progress.

Are you generic 'complex needs' SpecialCircs? That seems to be popping up more and more.

Defeatist - maybe, though we gave it 2.5 years before giving in . There has to come a point when we accept that mainstream just isn't suitable for all children.

I like my sons set up, he's in the speech & language unit (he doesn't have ASD) attached to a mainstream school. There he gets taught by a teacher that has specialised in his disabilities (not a TA which is what happened at MS) but still mixes with MS children at PE, play, lunch etc.

I agree wholeheartedly with inclusion & was beyond devastated when we removed him from his school where he had many friends to his current one.

To try and be more inclusive maybe we need to be more accepting of SN schools as part of the communities. It doesn't just need to happen in the classroom.

I worked as a TA for a year and then as a youth worker before training as a teacher. I also volunteered with a disabled children's charity for a year, taking the children on trips and to social activities. I thought the information on safeguarding and SEN was appalling in the PGCE, a couple of hours only on each, mostly by PPT presentation from someone who hadn't taught in years.

The problem is that the universities rely on placement schools to cover and add detail to a lot of things. And some schools are great at training - my first placement was at brilliant school with a specialist physical disability unit on site, and where they had lots of on going SEN training for staff. (One session was about dyslexia, written by a group of dyslexic students and led by a year 10 student talking about what had helped him.) But my second school was a disaster in terms of professional development, long term staff absence meant they could hardly cover all their classes let alone worry about what the trainee teachers were doing!

If the funding is available I would like to do a masters in SEN but I know I would never get it paid for and it is too expensive on top of four years of students loans to pay for myself. Annoyingly I know other schools would pay for it.

I rather like the term 'inclusion' (hence the name). I interpret it as including everybody, not just fitting in children with SEN.

Include everybodies interests.
Include everybodies needs in day to day routines.
Include everybody in an Achivement for All culture (horrible, horrible jargon ).

I don't see inclusion as treating everybody the same though. I think the word integration is equally open to that misinterpretation. I think when we were being pushed towards personalised learning that was the right direction. That was dropped like a hot potato though, wasn't it?

I heard myself asking a colleague the other day whether Every Child still Matters. FFS.

I don't think much good has come of the last 3 or 4 years!!

vj32 You make the point perfectly.

Some schools value SEN training and staff development.

Special Schools seem to have moved on too as educators rather than just carers and I would have to agree that for some children this may well be their best choice, so long as they actually have a choice.

Though I do have some reservations around mainstream "units" or "bases" being used as holding / segregation pens rather than as the transition "bridges" that they were initially sold as. It seems that in some mainstream schools these only serve to intensify the stigma and social segregation - possibly more socially disabling than the original difference.

Part of the issue seems to me that every child is different.

I mean, through experience and training by a variety of specialists who came in to work with one of my pupils, I am an absolute expert on a syndrome with no name, which combines physical, mental and visual impairment.

I am never likely to need that knowledge again (child is basically the only known sufferer) but I needed it in huge quantities for a single year.

Yes, there are some 'generic' SENs - ASD, ADHD but within those there is still a whole range of needs.

In many ways, rather than offering lots of 'generic' SEN training, what needs to be created is a 'training team around a child' so that e.g. each teacher is trained for the following year by a team including current TA (if any), current teacher, SENCo and any involved specialists.

Equality is what we have now though OP - every child has an equal entitlement to education (in theory). It doesn't work. Inclusion is about creating the conditions where every child can thrive and reach their potential. Equality is not enough. I am unashamed about this - my son needs more help and more support to get himself on an equal footing.

Posters have ref'd things like school reports: I can add a whole list of 'WilsonJr needs to learn to work in a group; WilsonJr needs to learn to value others' contributions; WilsonJr needs to listen.' NO SHIT SHERLOCK! WilsonJr has a social communication disorder. Working in a group is a form of torture for him. Equality in that setting would be for there to be no group. Inclusion is about teaching him the skills he needs, giving him the support he needs, pushing him when he needs it and ultimately giving him an 'out' when it gets too much. But they can't do it. It's too hard, it's too resource intensive. So he continues to struggle.

Many, many parents of children with SN who are in mainstream would welcome a return to special schools. That's not defeatist segregation and did you mean to be so rude about a poster's actual life it's realising that their children's lives are blighted by poorly-funded, poorly-trained and poorly-implemented equality and integration.

I live in a rural area with many small combined class primaries.

The SENCO hat is just stuck on someone's head, it doesn't necessarily fit.

At DDs school it was the HT, who had enough to do already.

Support from the LEA for small schools is non existent. Ed Phy one day a year, and that was to see the one statemented child.

Falling pupil numbers mean fewer TAs.

As for SN groups to volunteer at, with a very scattered population there are very few, if any outside the nearest big city.

One of the children I work with (am an advisory teacher for LAC) had an IEP which gave her target as To concentrate in class. That was it. Just one target. No breakdown, success criteria, strategy, anything.

She had an IEP as she has ADHD