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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To agree with workfare in principal?

706 replies

IAmMiranda · 29/09/2013 11:23

Donning my flame retardant underwear - though note I'm not for the current scheme, but the principal is sensible.

Working for unemployment benefits makes sense to me - provided that the "wage" is fair for the hours and skills. Eg. £90 a week job sellers could equal 15 hours of charity work?

Taking into account disabilities, childcare and other responsibilities I really don't think its unfair to provide people with jobs to earn the equivalent of benefits?

I do think its wrong to line the pockets of corporations, reduce jobs for other workers etc but surely charity work is an option?

I think I've probably missed some huge glaring point but AIBU?

(NOTE: I have previously been in reciept of JSA and would happily have done 15 hours a week and had plenty of time to job search)

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 30/09/2013 20:37

Why not report them if they are frauds?

ohnoimnot · 30/09/2013 20:45

I would never do that.

TheBigJessie · 30/09/2013 20:47

lainiekazan you do know that repeated failure to be in for the mandatory gas safety check can put you at risk of eviction from a property, whether private, council or HA, right?

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 30/09/2013 20:53

the link on the other thread says they force entry or take you to court to get the work done.

not they evict you. or do you have a link for that?

alemci · 30/09/2013 20:59

Lainie I wouldn't want to work in a care home or have a job that involves alot of lifting or is too physical it's not me. I have been working for years and am confident of getting another job.

TheBigJessie · 30/09/2013 21:01

favoritethings you're still thinking about care home roles as something that can be done by anyone, and care home managers as people who should pick the applicant who's worked least.

Do you have the same attitude to childminders and nursery staff?

Debs75 · 30/09/2013 21:03

ohnoimnot You can't slag them off on here for fraudulently claiming then say you couldn't report them. If they are working and claiming then they are stealing money from everyone else.

TheBigJessie · 30/09/2013 21:06

I don't know about any link on any thread. The horror comes from a life lived in private/council rental, not something I've read- I'm going off all the contracts I've signed over the years. Risk of eviction. If you're not evicted for it, I bet it would do nothing positive for your chance of getting your six month tenancy contract renewed.

In practical effect, that amounts to much the same thing.

Wallison · 30/09/2013 21:09

WasteOfTime, I disagree. It is entirely relevant. A UK national, living in this country where housing costs are insanely high, is not in the same position at all as a Bulgarian/Romanian/similar national, where they know that they can work their arses off for a few years and then be able to afford a house in their own country. A UK national will not be able to do that, not on the wages that a care home pays them.

Ohnoimnot, the fraudster you know must be pulling in a fair bit of wage on the black market, with the £71 a week JSA a minor part of their income. At least, that would be the case if you were talking about a real person.

TheBigJessie · 30/09/2013 21:15

Even the softer consequences such as forced entry and court action are bad. Tenant would be billed for damages, and court action means you will have to pay costs and kills your chance of a good reference.

But hey, all fun and games, eh?

Mimishimi · 30/09/2013 21:16

Community service, charity work, some sort of apprenticeship that would otherwise not be given ... YANBU

I think the objections are to jobs for which people should be paid the minimum wage and which businesses are likely to profit from the use of their cheaper labour.

ohnoimnot · 30/09/2013 21:16

The woman in question has children and works part time for cash she takes home over £300 pw. I would never report anyone. I couldnt live with the guilt.

Another friend was getting divorced her settlement was more than enough to live on yet the lawyer told her to claim benefits.

sunshinenanny · 30/09/2013 21:17

I sat in a small park this morning and wondered if the hard working council worker clearing the grounds was aware his job was soon to be threatened by slave labour!

Wallison · 30/09/2013 21:19

So, a six bedroomed house on a take-home wage of £300 pw? Does it have a lift-off roof and beds made out of matchboxes?

ohnoimnot · 30/09/2013 21:22

She has a partner who pays half, he has to stay elsewhere half the week so the childrens father wont find out and stop paying.

TheBigJessie · 30/09/2013 21:31

ohnoimnot If her settlement was more than enough to live on a lifetime, then I'm sure deductions were made. I believe deductions are made for any savings over £6000.

When I started our claim this year after my Christmas job finished (yes, I occasionally work!), that got us, because our rent contract stipulated that rent had to be paid in advance and the new contract was due to start in a week's time, and thus we still had the money, so our next six months' rent was treated as savings!Grin We did try and explain it at the booking in appointment, too.

williaminajetfighter · 30/09/2013 22:10

I think it's grim that al unemployed are somehow viewed as long term, unskilled unemployed in shell suits.

I do wonder if the govt is going to great lengths to set up contracts with companies, why can't they establish proper apprentices or longer term roles to really help those who have been long term unemployed? It really doesn't seem like much of a leap....

sunshinenanny · 30/09/2013 22:10

I have a friend who has worked since she was 15 and expected to get her pension this year on reaching 60 but she has been told that despite paying enough contributions she cannot claim it until she is 63. her job finished the beginning of this year and she is having trouble finding another one.

She also loses out on her buspass. Which would have been good sense to help her get to job interviews and she is dreading the winter with no winter fuel payments and she lives in poverty. she also often has to walk to the jobcentre and back (a round trip if 3 hours and 20 minutes) because she doesn't have enough for the £4.50 fare after she's paid the £15.50 bedroom tax and the water, gas, and electricity bills. Her friends and siblings often help with food.

She is expected to humiliate herself at the jobcentre and is treated just the same as any other jobseeker! basicly like a peice of shit.Angry She was in tears today after dealing with one of these lovely people: Who incidently would not have a job if it wasn't for the unfortunate unemployed.

Most people out of work would love a job. who enjoys having to give all the details of their private life to a smirking stranger who dare to look down on them! just so they can keep their head above water. But what the Heck! it's an easy life being a scrounger!

Darkesteyes · 30/09/2013 22:29

sunshine thats awful Poor lady Sad Angry

HeeHiles · 30/09/2013 23:51

Sunshine - it's awful isn't it? So many people find themselves late 50's made redundant after working since 15/16 and unable to find work in their field. They may be engineers, IT, professionals with mortgages and families who are now treated like criminals doing menial work - why? do they need humiliating? They've paid NI - They've paid in. Fucking Government are only worried about votes, no empathy for real lives at all.

I hope your friend finds a nice little job - If she's in London I might be able to help her - I work in recruitment.

CoTananat · 01/10/2013 07:06

Loads of the agency carers we've had who are from places like Mali had advanced degrees. One woman who used to come to us helped me with my object modelling (software), over my shoulder, while she was taking out our rubbish. She was working as a minimum wage carer in the UK because her country is so rubbish she has literally no better options. Her talents were wasted by both economies.

Let's NOT model our economic policies on Mali. How can people think this is a good idea.

They had an empire once too, you know.

SquigletPie · 01/10/2013 07:41

My understanding from what I heard on the radio is that it applies to people who have been out of work for 2 years or more.

People keep quoting a weekly benefit amount and using that to work out a wage for the voluntary/community based on 1 weeks work but seem to forget that prior to being 'made' to work those people will have claimed 2 years of benefits and will not have worked. So actually 104 x £71 is £7,384 and they didn't have to work for it. Not to much to ask people to work a few weeks is it?

People then start on the fact people out of work should be free to look for work. Well, people in fulltime work look for and apply for jobs so it is not impossible.

Turning up at the job centre every day is meaningless unless there are jobs to actually apply for, or courses and qualified staff to help with the application and interview process. Which is a minefield in my experience and sole destroying often : - ( so needs to be properly supported.

Offred · 01/10/2013 08:05

It doesn't matter if it is a charity. Free work undermines employment and wages.

In any case there are plenty of people who have been dumped on JSA when it is very inappropriate - OU students, single parents with young children, the disabled, the sick.

ALso people shouldn't be punished for being unemployed, if there are jobs for the people to do then give them the jobs, properly.

TotemPole · 01/10/2013 08:36

People then start on the fact people out of work should be free to look for work. Well, people in fulltime work look for and apply for jobs so it is not impossible.

To be eligible for JSA you need to be available and looking for work. You aren't allowed to take on a course for more than 15 hours a week. So how can it be ok to do workfare for more than 15 hours a week?

Wallison · 01/10/2013 09:32

I volunteer for a charity. We already have massive problems recruiting and retaining volunteers, and every time someone new joins they undergo specialist training (just because you work for free, doesn't mean that the work is unskilled) that all comes out of the charity's budget. What we would be expected to do with a bunch of people who do not want to work for us and are only there on pain of losing their benefits I have no idea. I should imagine that the same is true for a lot of charities - they would not thank the govt for it as it would only create extra hassle and headaches.

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