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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To agree with workfare in principal?

706 replies

IAmMiranda · 29/09/2013 11:23

Donning my flame retardant underwear - though note I'm not for the current scheme, but the principal is sensible.

Working for unemployment benefits makes sense to me - provided that the "wage" is fair for the hours and skills. Eg. £90 a week job sellers could equal 15 hours of charity work?

Taking into account disabilities, childcare and other responsibilities I really don't think its unfair to provide people with jobs to earn the equivalent of benefits?

I do think its wrong to line the pockets of corporations, reduce jobs for other workers etc but surely charity work is an option?

I think I've probably missed some huge glaring point but AIBU?

(NOTE: I have previously been in reciept of JSA and would happily have done 15 hours a week and had plenty of time to job search)

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 30/09/2013 15:40

YANBU. Someone unemployed for 2 years is not just between jobs. They have a serious problem and need intervention.

mummytoboyz7 · 30/09/2013 16:02

Yes but they will probably also be able to find a job before being on JSA for two years. I am an accountant and worked hard to find jobs in this economy but had to make sacrifices - work further away. There are jobs out there but sone people need to lower their expectations to get through the door.

Talkinpeace · 30/09/2013 16:09

I'd have a lot less ethical problems with it if

  • listed companies were barred from taking any workfare or job seekers placements
  • any company that paid ANY director over £1m was barred
  • any company that paid less than 15% CT on profits was barred

then at least the benefits of the free work would accrue to the UK economy, not the offshore multimillionaire parasites

alemci · 30/09/2013 16:20

yes it is difficult. I have been made redundant very recently but want to get back to work asap. I miss my colleagues and looking smart etc. not that i look totally awful BYKWIM.

I can see how people get demotivated and discouraged especially if you are out of work for a long time.

don't think one size fits all.

sorry to hear about someone's dd having to sweep the stockroom floor for hours on end - that is mean.

Darkesteyes · 30/09/2013 16:24

The scheme was New Deal in 2000 but its no different. It was workfare by another name.

Wallison · 30/09/2013 16:36

The rationale behind Workfare and the proposals outlined today seem to be based on the presumption that being unemployed is a choice and that if only we could make it more difficult to be unemployed then the 'problem' would be solved. When actually the problem is that there are not enough jobs to go around because the country is in severe financial difficulties. Also, far too many of the jobs that are available are part-time or zero/short hours contracts or even self-employed. Cuntmeron needs to stop counting this type of work in the statistics of jobs available, because they do not offer the proper steady employment that employees need.

DameDeepRedBetty · 30/09/2013 16:38

Have skim-read thread - it's clear that a lot of posters have got bogged down in examples of how unfair the current Workfare scheme. OP has never said that she thought it was, and (apart from a couple of oddbods) neither has anyone else on the thread.

I think there is a place for strong encouragement to help people who for whatever reason have been out of work for more than a few months. And there will be certain cases who will have developed the depression, apathy of ambition, and 'the state owes me a living' attitude, which can brew up after a long period without structure to the day, who may benefit from being forced to go and do something.

However I think we all agree subbing out Poundland's wage bill is not the way ahead.

I started my business with the support of New Deal For Lone Parents, and acquired my amazing assistant originally as a work experience volunteer. I now pay her a proper wage and will be taking on another volunteer when a remotely suitable person comes forward - I hope business will continue to grow enough to be able to pay her or him properly in the future, but if not, at least I will be able to give him or her a fantastic reference, which I know was of value to my very first volunteer, who I couldn't afford to take on but was able to support to go on a course, and who is now in the final year of a degree, having originally never believed she was capable of such a thing.

betterthanever · 30/09/2013 16:39

betterthanever if you really beliive what they say about it being for the long term unemployed who have been unemployed for 3 years or more then you are incredibly naive. thanks for that - I don't remember saying I believed it, I just posted what was said. I actually find it very difficult to believe your DD had to do what you say if I am being really honest - if she did then it is disgusting, as I don't know why they picked on her when we are all aware of lots of people on that benefit who have not had to do this type of thing after such a short length of time on the benefit.

Darkesteyes · 30/09/2013 16:41

Better it wasnt my DD it was copied and pasted from another thread. You have contradicted yourself there though

betterthanever · 30/09/2013 16:44

I haven't Dark I don't think it would be right for someone to have to do that after 3 weeks and I don't believe it happened. There is a big difference between 3 weeks and 3 years.

78bunion · 30/09/2013 16:44

Very good plan which has huge support among voters.

Wallison · 30/09/2013 16:50

betterthanever, DWP staff already have the discretion to impose conditions on unemployed people, including the Mandatory Work Scheme or being required to attend sessions at a work programme provider. It's called making a direction and they can do this at any time; it's certainly not unheard of for them to make such a direction even if someone has been only claiming for a short time.

Darkesteyes · 30/09/2013 16:52

Wonder how unemployed people are going to wait in for things like the gas safety check if they have to go into the job centre every day.
Ditto having to do workfare. Sanctioned if you dont go into placement.
Threatened with breach of tenancy if you dont wait in for the engineer

tombliboouun · 30/09/2013 16:58

I'm not on JSA. I'm a SAHM who'd like to go back to work. Tesco would rather employ someone on workfare. than me. I rest my case. Workfare is totally flawed.

Darkesteyes · 30/09/2013 16:58

So you dont believe it happened Then you say you are just reporting what was said about the 3 year thing.
Then you say there is a big diff between 3 weeks and 3 years. Hmm

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 30/09/2013 17:03

but a gas safety check is once a year per household?

so not a frequent event.

Darkesteyes · 30/09/2013 17:05

Once every nine months with our HA And ive waited in all day last Monday and all day today You are going with the premise that the engineer turns up. Apparently i wont die if he doesnt.

GobbySadcase · 30/09/2013 17:07

There are also those who took time off their workfare placements to attend job interviews and got sanctioned.

Which means they're not able to jobseek so surely NMW is appropriate?

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 30/09/2013 17:24

There are also those who took time off their workfare placements to attend job interviews and got sanctioned.

if you have been unemployed for 2 years and going to interviews, you probably need to rethink your job hunt so doing something different for most people will increase their chances.

TheBigJessie · 30/09/2013 17:53

My in-laws are in care homes. Both care homes find it extremely hard to recruit. They have no choice but to employ foreign workers and, in fact, pensioners because no one else will even apply. I don't think we can deny that with the population explosion of the elderly that this area will inevitably be a huge employer and no one can be allowed to turn their noses up at this kind of work.

Do you not think that looking after the elderly and vulnerable is slightly specialised work?

Or that the care homes, given a choice, would like to avoid their business being the site of the next abuse scandal?

Personally, I wouldn't apply for work in a care home- not because I'm "above it", but because I'm not suitable. Also, I already spent my entire childhood being the emotional carer for an abusive alcoholic mentally-ill person, unpaid. Meanwhile I myself had undiagnosed unsupported SN. I saved the government a metric fucktonne of money over those years, and it took me about 3 years to work through the PTSD after I retired, after police were called by the neighbours when they heard her beating me.

I'm still working through the mental ishoos afterwards. I'm not suitable for a role in a care home for the elderly, and no-one should palm me off on them.

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 30/09/2013 17:57

Do you not think that looking after the elderly and vulnerable is slightly specialised work?

yes but it is strange that people from other countries seem to be able to travel hundreds/thousands of miles do this very useful job but people from the UK don't.

poverty in your home country seems to help people become more suited to this work.

Darkesteyes · 30/09/2013 18:03

And now they havent turned up AGAIN so im going to have to book a third appointment.
Good job im not on workfare

cannotfuckingbelievethis · 30/09/2013 18:24

Cogito- Someone unemployed for 2 years is not just between jobs. They have a serious problem and need intervention.

I was unemployed for 2yrs and 7 months after being made redundant from my job of 10 yrs (I was also 8 1/2 months pregnant which was just perfect timing of course !) It was a 0hrs contract temp Xmas job.

Before this it was impossible for me to find anything that fitted round DCs nursery hours and DPs work hours. You can't make sweeping generalisations though I realise very many MNers do. That will be me unemployed for a whole year come the 3rd of October. I don't get any benefits btw.

Work Fare sounds like a pile of shit to me. As others have said, after a couple of years of being told there are no jobs it would appear that there are actually jobs....but only if the employers don't have to pay.

alemci · 30/09/2013 18:29

also care home work must be quite physical. I don't want to damage my back etc and that would put me off. I know you use a hoist etc but still very tiring I would think.

fluffyraggies · 30/09/2013 18:33

betterthannever it's me you are calling a liar. Thank you for that. How constructive.

Is that your best argument? Anything which doesn't fit in with your opinion is obviously a lie Hmm Good luck with that.