to think that this is economically stupid. Tories to announce full and permanent WORKFARE.

[Darkesteyes]

next week according to the Mail.
So how is anybody going to afford to buy anything while working for benefits then.
Even less incentive for companies to take people in proper employment if the workfare workforce is going to increase.

twitter.com/SkyNews/status/383342225926524928/photo/1

Workfare is experience of working though. Still doesn't negate the fact that it is slave labour and a very real risk to all unskilled minimum wage jobs. There doesn't have to be a job available at the end of the Workfare placement.
It's a no brainer!! Why would an employer offer training to someone who's only going to be there for a very short time? That's bonkers!!
If there is a job available, pay NMW, train the staff and give them a genuine opportunity to work.

brilliant - who needs real sustainable employment opportunities

I though zero hours slavery contracts where bad - but look - they don't get a contract, or a wage or anything - just the benefits they are legally entitled to

I hate this government with a passion

My daughter had to do ''Work Fair'' 3 weeks after signing on to job seekers immediately after completing her vetinary college course. This was 2 years ago.

The company she had to work for had her doing longer shifts than all the other staff members (who were getting MW) and she was required to do this work for 4 weeks. No consideration was given to her travel - (there were no buses running at the times the co. wanted her to do shifts) so many times i had to drive her in. She was told she would have to have the permission of the company to have time off for any interviews for a real job. She was told that she would not be allowed off work fair to persue voluntary work at a vetinary surgery (which would have given her relevant experience).

• The work? Sweeping floors in the stock room of a cheapy chemist.

• Was there an actual vacancy at the end of the 4 weeks? no.

• After her 4 weeks did the chemist then take on another school leaver for 4 weeks for free? Yes.

• Do they still do it now? Yes.

• Did my daughter get a job in the end? Yes - off her own back - a week after finishing the Work Fare job, when she finally had the time to persue a real job. The Job Centre, who week after week had just kept saying ''oh - there seems to be no jobs available on the system right now'' was all fired up to put her on work fair again ....'

What a wonderful idea Work Fair is

Posted too soon

In a store I managed the company decided to take on workfare rather than actual staff.

2 of the workfare we actually took on as Xmas staff with a lot of persuading but the other 2 were off at least once a week, didn't know 2 50ps make a £1, had poor personal hygiene and a terrible attitude.

It was so frustrating having people with experience bringing their cv but being unable to offer them work

Viviennemary

I'm not sure if you are stupid, naive, misinformed or believe in slavery.

It's not enough to get a sick note if you are working, it's not enough to be seen by ATOS every few months. Apparently according to ATOS amputated legs can grow back and Cerebral Palsy improves.

Why should a company that makes millions of pounds be given free labour?

Did you know if you volunteer for a charity you can be sanctioned for not being available for work and then be sent to Tesco to work for your benefits.

What about childcare? If you are out of the house 10 hours a day you cannot look after your own child, but as you are not working you don't get any help with childcare.

At least if we went back to workhouses the large companies would not profit.

Oh and my local job centre has had to recruit 20 new staff (propper jobs) to deal with all the workfare claimants who didn't get a job at the end because companies take on more workfare 'clients'

Do you remember Thatcher when people were forced to take a job if it was offered, regardless of whether they had the skills, the training, whether the employer abided by health and safety. People were killed. We will soon be back to that, people risking their lives for benefits.

Just because I do not agree with the opinions on this thread does not mean I am stupid naive or uniformed. I hope I am none of these things. It gets a bit pathetic when people have to resort to insults to make their point. Why not vent your fury on Ian Duncan Smith and not me.

Dear fucking god.. they get worse and worse don't they?

I could write reams about this but haven't the time ATM, so, in short - IT IS INHUMANE.

I have some great ideas on how to save money, and get this country back on its feet.

Lifetime disability benefits for lifetime conditions, because reassessment and the appeals process cost money. As sashh said, amputated legs don't grow back. People with permanent conditions that do not and could never remit without a god's intervention should not be pointlessly reassessed at public cost, to be either be granted their entitlement again or denied it.

Just leave the people in peace.

Workfare is not one of my ideas, because it can only damage our national economy. Workfare needs to go, because it is diminishing the numbers of jobs and the amount of money people have to spend!

So people suffer a life changing illness or accident and we should write them off forever as being unable to provide for themselves?

Things like that don't go away, but people don't automatically become unable to ever work again because they have been diagnosed with a life long condition or because they have a leg amputated. There are loads of amputees and disabled people in work.

Personally I'd rather that assessments continued, but that the outcome was help and support to get into work if at all possible.

If they want people to work for nothing, then why can't they turn them into real jobs with a living wage. Also how will they have time to look for work if they are working for nothing because unless they're super human they can't do both. Their vendeter against the unemployed is like an obsession and it's getting, well frankly boring and past a joke now. xx

Also how is this going to solve the unemployment crisis if a firm can get someone to work for nothing why are they going to hire someone they would have to pay. xx

BrokenSunglasses nice try at the "I care more about the disabled than you". Unfortunately, you're barking up the wrong tree. You really shouldn't have used that little passive-aggressive hmm face.

You see, disability benefits aren't out-of-work benefits. You're entitled to them, to defray the cost of your disability. In fact, receiving disability benefits can enable people to work. For example, people can exchange the mobility component for a mobility vehicle, enabling them to be actually able to drive to work.

Did you think disabled people didn't deserve to be helped with increased expenses from their disability if they'd managed to wrangle a minimum wage job somewhere?

Have a

Recognising the reality of someone's disability and not dragging them in for reassessment and form-filling is "writing them off". Jeez louise...

"Personal Independence Payment (PIP) helps with some of the extra costs caused by long-term ill-health or a disability if you’re aged 16 to 64.

You could get between £21 to £134.40 a week to help with the extra costs caused by your condition. How much you get is not based on your condition, but how your condition affects you.

You’ll need an assessment to work out the level of help you get. Your award will be regularly reassessed to make sure you’re getting the right support."

www.gov.uk/pip/overview

Workfare is exactly how IDS is going to find something for the self-employed, part-timers and people on zero hours contracts who won't earn enough to quality for universal Credit to do.

Oh yes Anais, "the job you are working at isn't satisfactory, give it up now and work for our mates for free"

Now is definitely the time to get views made public. This is not policy - it is an idea being mooted at the Conservative Party Conference. If it is well-received, it would require either the LibDems to get on board with it, or a majority Conservative government if it was to become policy.

So does Broken think that someone with cerebal palsy's condition is going to improve? Because that's what ATOS think. 'Review in 6 months because condition may have improved' has actually been written on people with CP's assessments.

It is utter madness to keep reassessing people who are not going to get better.

And VivienneMary, you are being naive if you think that someone already getting ESA would be able to get a sicknote - they are already on the sick to start with and that fact is being ignored.

"This is Communism surely?"

Yes, mathanxiety, that's exactly right.

I hadn't thought of it in those terms before.

Tory Communists.

If Workfare is 'slave labour' and 'stops people getting jobs' - can someone please explain to me how it works so well in USA ?

(Before you slate me........just asking !)

Does it work well in the USA?

But if you are receiving money you are not working for nothing.
If done properly it would vastly improve society.
I have several friends who get benefits due to circumstances beyond their control who volunteer.
Maybe if you get yourself a volunteer position you should be exempt giving a little control to the person.
I would have no qualms about going in to my kids school every day or spending time picking up litter ( I and several neighbours do this anyway in our area in spite of having jobs) as long as I could have time off to attend interviews for work.
I do agree you should be topped up to minimum wage if not receiving payments and other assistance which equal it.
If the money paid out to the unemployed was stopped (not suggesting it should be) and given to a school or hospital they could then use it to employ someone to do all the jobs they can not afford at the moment.
Some one extra at meal times, someone to listen to the struggling children read or clean up the rubbish or graffiti. Repaint the scruffy buildings, clean public spaces better etc. etc.

I don't think it does work well there. They have very high unemployment as well.

Workfare would be fine if it was just 4 weeks, at minimum wage, and you were given the option to get proper experience in a field you were trying to find a job in. But it's not like that.