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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that this is economically stupid. Tories to announce full and permanent WORKFARE.

296 replies

Darkesteyes · 26/09/2013 23:09

next week according to the Mail.
So how is anybody going to afford to buy anything while working for benefits then.
Even less incentive for companies to take people in proper employment if the workfare workforce is going to increase.

twitter.com/SkyNews/status/383342225926524928/photo/1

OP posts:
poppingin1 · 27/09/2013 12:19

There are far more people who work claiming HB than unemployed because the housing market has priced people out of even being able to afford to rent, let alone buy.

ParsingFancy · 27/09/2013 12:30

It's ironic that Tory grandee Ken Clarke's big concern over plans to make prisoners work more, is that it would affect real jobs.

"It would be a very serious downside if we started replacing job opportunities for law abiding people, and we’ve been conscious of that all the way through.
...
"Although we don’t pay the prisoners the minimum wage, normally you can’t start undercutting British businesses outside. For that reason, however, we’ve just tried to ensure in our code of practice that we will not price on a basis that threatens honest businesses" The Independent, Jun 2012

Feck, why bother. Now companies don't have to bother with prisoners, they can just sack their competent, law-abiding staff and have the same people back paid for by taxpayer.

noisytoys · 27/09/2013 12:32

Workfare is terrifying we are going back in time to Victorian Britain Sad

TheBigJessie · 27/09/2013 12:45

I would reform the system, by getting rid of pointless expenditure like unnecessary ATOS assessments.

Thee money saved on that bureaucracy could be spent elsewhere. YThe job centre could actually set up workplace training courses for the unemployed. For example, I see adverts for warehouse forklift drivers locally. Now, due to my dodgy reflexes, that itself isn't suitable for me, even after training, but for other people it is.

Does my job centre provide forklift-training, or even tell you where you can find it? No. I looked for someone else, and I couldn't find even find any courses locally.

I would refuse to allow the benefits system to completely subsidise companies' labour costs. There was a little nugget of truth that people with gaps on their CVs could often do with work experience to demonstrate to employers that they're worth employing.

So I would severely limit and alter the workfare thing until it's almost unrecognisable. Employers would:

  1. have severe limits on how many workfare placements they could do, (none of this "another 25 workers every four weeks", with none of them getting jobs")

  2. They would be obliged to top up the benefits the person got until it reached minimum wage for the hours worked. I'd need some people to check through the loopholes to make sure there weren't exceptions where people could lose out, but it can be done.

It just needs the people in charge to think it's worth doing. The company would still be getting a cheap worker, so it would still be in their interest to offer placements. They just wouldn't be taking the piss at an individual's expense.
3) People on placements would have the same health and safety rights as contracted workers- this could be dealt with by, erm, contracts.
4) Companies who wanted JSA-claimants as cheap workers would be obliged to provide references, just like they do to previous paid employees. That would mean that people on a placement would actually have improved employment chances afterwards.

There's more, but I didn't make notes on all of it, so I can't remember what the details were, apart from one thing.

People whinge like mad about single parents getting back to work, and not even going on courses, etc. If you're a single-parent of young child(ren), and you don't have childcare, how can you attend evening courses, etc? There should be proper crèches, to enable the demonised single parents to train.

I have been working heavily on courses for my CV, in the absence of a job, and it's paying off, in that I'm getting more interviews to stutter my way through. That has only been possible, because my husband is willing and able to co-parent.

TotemPole · 27/09/2013 12:51

Some one extra at meal times, someone to listen to the struggling children read or clean up the rubbish or graffiti. Repaint the scruffy buildings, clean public spaces better etc. etc.

Those are called jobs. Can you see the local councils keeping the same number of staff if they can get their streets cleaned up for free?

AnaisHendricks · 27/09/2013 13:02
TotemPole · 27/09/2013 13:06

TBH, I'd be willing to do 4 weeks of workfare if I was being trained in something that made me more employable. But obviously that isn't likely to be the case. I wouldn't need 4 weeks training to stack shelves or sweep floors.

Alternatively, I'd also be willing to work 10 hours a week for my £71 JSA, as long it was walkable and in term time, school hours only. But if there were any local jobs like this, I'd have found them and applied for a real vacancy. I'd get to keep £20, so I'd be slightly better off.

StormyBrid · 27/09/2013 13:20

I like the way you think, BigJessie, but find myself thinking of numerous ways in which the current government would manage to screw it up if given your post as a brief to work with. For example, if your work placement is topping up your benefits so you're receiving the equivalent of NMW, you've got money coming in. I'd be willing to bet that would mean a reduction in the benefits you'd get.

TotemPole · 27/09/2013 13:21

People whinge like mad about single parents getting back to work, and not even going on courses, etc. If you're a single-parent of young child(ren), and you don't have childcare, how can you attend evening courses, etc? There should be proper crèches, to enable the demonised single parents to train.

You aren't forced to look for work until your youngest child reaches school age(5). Single parents with school aged children can do day time courses and while on JSA up to level 2 are usually free.

TotemPole · 27/09/2013 13:27

If someone with children was working full time in a NMW job, they would normally be entitled to working tax credits. Working full time but still having a status of being on JSA, I can see the government using this as an excuse to not give them the top up WTC.

Maybe the company could fully employ the person so they can claim WTC too. Then the government give some sort of incentive of £71 for so many weeks to employers who take on a long term unemployed person?

TheBigJessie · 27/09/2013 13:28
  • needless to say, if I was actually in charge, that would not happen, but then, I actually think the poor/unemployed are people.

Totem That's true. Nevertheless, the social disapproval is there. And what about single parents who are looking for work, or want to be prepared before the child turns five? There is very little support out there for the actual practical issues that keep people in the poverty trap. I think it's great the lone parents can claim Income Support until the child reaches school age, but they should be offered practical support with it, rather than flung on JSA and expected to find something after that. Mind, I say "offered", not "forced to attend" any crap going.

leylandii · 27/09/2013 13:30

Not quite sure of all the details yet, but £71 per week would equate to around 11 hours a week on minimum wage. Is minimum wage £6.31?

YouTheCat · 27/09/2013 13:32

£6.58 I think.

AmberLeaf · 27/09/2013 13:38

Single parents with school aged children can do day time courses and while on JSA up to level 2 are usually free

But they are also expected to be actively job seeking at the same time and are expected to 'be prepared' to leave their course if a job comes up.

leylandii · 27/09/2013 13:38

that would equate to 10.7 hours per week.

Are they wanting people to work full-time for this?

YouTheCat · 27/09/2013 13:44

Yes they are.

TotemPole · 27/09/2013 13:47

And what about single parents who are looking for work, or want to be prepared before the child turns five?

Yes, there is very little support. When DC was under 5, I was outside of the catchment area for the sure start creche, and even then it would have only been 2 hours.

TotemPole · 27/09/2013 13:49

But they are also expected to be actively job seeking at the same time and are expected to 'be prepared' to leave their course if a job comes up.

That's true. I hadn't thought of that.

TheBigJessie · 27/09/2013 13:52

Ohyus. If you're forced to apply for some very temp crap, and get it, bugger your enrolment on the training that would actually get you full-time employment for something permanent.

Heard of that happening- near the actual end of courses, a couple of months away from an actual qualification. It's bizarre, as the jobcentre will have actually paid for the courses!

TotemPole · 27/09/2013 13:57

Can they force you to take a temporary job? I'm actually getting worried about all of this. If I don't find something in the next few months, I have to go on the work programme.

AmberLeaf · 27/09/2013 13:57

They may also be expected to do workfare and give up their course too if the jobcentre deems it necessary.

I was told by my advisor that they [she] would try to not make that happen, but that it was a possibility.

AmberLeaf · 27/09/2013 13:58

I don't think they can force you, but they can impose sanctions if you don't [ie cut your JSA for a period of time]

StormyBrid · 27/09/2013 13:59

I'm reminded of years back, when I was part time at college and signing on. My adviser wanted me to do a two week course, which clashed with an A Level exam. Wasn't allowed to attend the course later. Apparently a crappy two week course in how to turn a computer on was more likely to get me a job than passing my A Levels was.

TotemPole · 27/09/2013 14:03

The government's timing of forcing single parents off IS onto JSA was just stupid. The move happened over the time thousands of people were being laid off with companies such as Woolies closing down. They continued with bringing down the age of children for IS eligibility. Stupid, stupid move.

TotemPole · 27/09/2013 14:08

I don't think they can force you, but they can impose sanctions if you don't [ie cut your JSA for a period of time]

AmberLeaf, to me thats the same thing.

God I'm really worried now.