To disagree with 3/4 year old children having more childcare paid for

[ReallyTired]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24199711

I feel the goverment should pay for education rather than childcare. 15 hours a week is enough to meet a child's educational needs for pre school. At a time of austerity, I feel there are bigger spending priorities. (Providing enough school places for children who are of complusory school age!)

If you choose to have chidlren then you should pay to look after them. I feel that labour's set of proposals are totally unaffordable and making the "banks" pay will damage the UK financial sector long term.

All these election bribes do not help the UK in the long term.

I dont think that tiggy. If you volunteered to help children in Africa you wouldnr think I cant use backing paper so I will do a shit job with children. Unless you are a terrible worker, and I say that as someone who did many years working in Early Yeard.

"If a nursery bans backing paper good staff will think it looks shit. Good staff do not want to work somewhere where they are told to do their job in a shit way. The quality of staff goes down. It will affect the children."

I completely agree with you, but I don't think poor displays affect the children as much as not turning the heating on. Lack of backing paper is not a reason for a formal complaint to OFSTED. It is a poor business decision not to use backing paper rather than child welfare.

Choosing whether to feed a child organic or halal food is a lifestyle choice.

Halal food is not a lifestyle choice.

It is if the child isn't Muslim.

I'm all for subsidised childcare but I'm not sure it will make it that much easier to work. Well not for low earners anyway. I have a friend with 3 children. Even just having to pay for before and after school club and holiday club costs £9360. Her salary is only £11,265. It's not worth it!

Rather than giving 3 and 4 year an extra 15 hours why not stick with the 15 hours they already get and subsidise childcare fees for all children? In Sweden there is something called the maximum fee policy. Fees are calculated according to income with low-income families paying nothing while the costs for more affluent parents for full-time childcare are capped at SEK 1,260 (£122.67) per child per month. The policy states that parents should only have to spend one to three percent of the family's income on childcare, depending on how many children they have.

"Halal food is not a lifestyle choice."

Halal food is more expensive and someone has to pay for the decision to feed a child halal food. A stay at home muslim mum would have to pay extra for her chidlren to eat halal food rather than conventionally slaughtered meat. If a nursery offers halal food then it will cost the owners more and someone has to pay. Surely its only reasonable to pass this cost on to the customers.

Vegetarian suits those who observe halal and is cheaper than halal or standard meat.

Halal food is really not a lifestyle choice!

Where I live, a carrier bag full of halal chicken is much, much cheaper than the equivalent amount in asda. I am not Muslim, but sometimes buy halal meat because it is cheaper. Schools that are bulk buying would probably get a good deal on regular orders.

Getting back to the point, I really don't see who is going to benefit from this policy. It doesn't help working parents and it doesn't help those living in expensive areas. Sounds like a typical political pledge. It sounds great but it amounts to zilch.

Halal meat from the supermarkets is more expensive but the halal butchers in our town are much cheaper than the supermarkets or other butchers (except the Chinese butchers).

It's all very well to promise more free childcare but where are they going to find the workers and who is going to pay them? Or do you think this might become a WorkFare program? ;)

how does it not help those in more expensive areas?

i'm inclined to agree money would be better spent in ensuring schools can offer after/before school care to all children who need it. the current situation of token 'we have an afterschool club and we fiddle it by reserving a number of places for reception parents each year meaning anyone with children older than reception can't get a place but it looks good to new parents' is just not good enough.

tbh i do think it's the pre/after school care that has the most impact on women and especially those worse off. those in a position to afford to carry on working and paying nurseries at least feel the massive release in costs when the child starts school, those who could never have afforded nursery get to school and are still busily trying to find jobs that fit in school hours and of course being forced to take poorly paid part time work without benefits such as sick pay or pensions etc in order to fit in those hours.

everyone would benefit from a school being open from 8am-5.30pm - fund the provision of that (doesn't have to be teachers obviously same sort of staff as you'd use for after school club and lunchtime supervision) or massively subsidise it so it's like £3 per child per day and you'd make a real difference to the working and earning potential of women.

And while we're talking money and education....

My son has autism. He started at mainstream school (with Autism School Attachment) last year. He had Teaching Assistance and settled quickly, winning the Year 7 Overall Progress Award in July. Education cutbacks have removed his TA in Year 8 and one month in, he's struggling massively and has increasing anxiety. Thanks very much Nick & Dave.

Actually thinking about this put costs to one side and look at educational provision.

In my county there are are only 2state run nurseries attached to primary schools-in wales it seems the norm to have nursery classes in every primary.

Lack of reception places whole city struggles with this one seems to get worse every year with people traelling over 2miles doing diffrenet schools as sibling dident get in.

Afterschool clubs-daughters old school had afterschool club 3.15-5.30 £8 dident suit a lot of people and breckfast club was 8-8.50 £2.50.

New school has daily breckfast club £2 but afterschool provision is patchy.dont get me wrong some are free clubs which run 3.30-4.15, outside providers where we pay go on until 4.30 not great for working parents/.

Holiday clubs round here are patchy expensive.

I sometimes wish there was provisoon for pay as you go drop in childcrae so dident have to take kids doctors with me , or family emergency as not everyone has family nearby.

But no have to commit to contracts, preschool which is charity pay a whole term, even charged lunchclub where they took their own lunch.
Daughters nursery has cook on site ad cooks meals and really like that.

we go on and on about free school dinners but that excludes the 3-5 age group and the 7-18 which seems daft.

The point is priate nurseries offer 8- some 8-7,

when child hits school age you have much less flexibility its so much easier when they in nursery, hence why supported moe extend school start age -7 and keep kids in nursery until then with better ratios of staff,

Im sure lots clubs for seniors school and doi seniors have breckfast clubs would improe attainment in senior schools.

Its labour policly ayway doubt they get in or how they would fund it more I hear about other countries more wish could moe.

childcare and housing costs maybe should be capped at %of income to be fair as why should a person on 20k pay same bill as someone on 100k.

Im more worried that none of them have any workable plans asnd many academys are oriate companies so state education is dimisishing and we the 15/25hours is a subsidy to private companies who like to make profits.

Ultimately the general view in this country underpinning all party policies seems to be that children are like pets, a kind of designer lifestyle accessory that you shouldn't treat yourself to unless you are prepared to weather all related storms tirelessly, however erratic and unexpected.

Nursery goes out of business? Suck it up - stay home or sort out an alternative and shut up.
Nursery fees rise much faster than wages? Suck it up - you decided to have children.
Disabled child? Suck it up - be grateful for the smallest morsel of help from the government - it's your problem.
Working hours different from locally available childcare hours? Suck it up or stay home twiddling your thumbs - it's a privilege to work and you haven't got the right to moan.
Earning a minus figure after childcare and housing costs? Suck it up - in the future you might, just might earn more if you are not laid off or forced to take a crap contract because that's all you can get.
No school places locally? Suck it up - you are lucky to have kids. Or blame immigration.
Lost child benefit as you are a higher rate taxpayer? Suck it up - even if your going to work overheads practically exceed your salary.
Want to try to sort all the above out and find your way blocked by red tape/need to pay middlemen/costs of OFSTED providing what is in effect Mafia Krysha (protection money so you are left alone to run your business)/planing permission issues? Suck it up - children are a luxury item.

I could go on.
This is a country that essentially resents women, and resents their children, but it disguises this a lot of the time.
51% of the population is only tolerated under sufferance, and that includes the problems caused by some women actually thinking other women are getting above themselves and being too demanding.
I am despairing so much I will have a cup of tea now and try thinking positive thoughts.

PS Can we have a Riven update please as for me she personnified a lot of the problems many women have in this resentful society, to a greater or lesser degree.

Im baffled why with so many people

on agency/0hours contracts,

all adverts says must be fully flexible.

hardly any set shifts how they suppost to arrange childcare without

working alternate shifts to partner-little family time
or family help.

most providers want contract 4weeks notice change in hours and paid termly preschools in advance or monthly for private nurseries.

The new childcare vouchers where both parents have to be in work.

1200 quid per child.
min 10k each which is 29hours at mn wage.

so both parents earn 10k each gross.
20k gross not sure how much that is net?

they use fulltime nursery last time i was fulltime as 9k a year.

lets just say 18k net.

minus 9k childcare.
leaves 9k.

our priate rents 9k.

then add bills
food
petrol/commuting costs.

if you earn min wge then its very hard to go back.

you need to earn decent wage even to consder it esepcially with more than 1 child.

then childcare gets even more complex when they start school as not eeryone can get weeks off over summer holidays.

retails lots weekends/eening/bank holidays wheres the provision for those workers.

The p[oit is childcare and education provision and hours is totally at odds with the job market and current economy.

wages are not rising.
costs are increasing.

I despair sometmes how little parents are valued.

theres no pint sugestng something eg bedroom subsidy if theres no small properties for them to moe to or private rent means more housing benefit lining pockets of landlords.

they need to be radical.but this is not the solution.

It's not that I disagree with it, anything that helps can only be a good thing. However my argument is this. It's not only 3/4 year old who need help to pay for childcare for some reason the government can't seem to be able see past this age group. x

Sorry. parents of 3/4 year old I meant to say. xx

Boffinmum it's absolutely true what you say, you only have to read this thread to see it.

"If you have children you should pay to look after them"
Did you really say that? Are you actually that dreadful Katie Hopkins woman? Why not scrap SMP as well then so that only rich people can have children? Right-wing elitist bollocks.
The point of subsidised childcare is to allow people to work and make it actually work it. Yes, it would be far better to have childcare costs based on a percentage of your salary as it is in countries with a history of stronger socialist values- meaning higher earners pay more. Clearly you haven't thought about how to encourage mums to work and how expensive childcare is.

Yes, absolutely and I'd add that the message needs to get across loud and clear that this should not be seen as a mother issue; it's a parents issue.

i find it crazy taking away child benfit for alot of families introducing bedroom tax

then offering free school dinner and extra preschool/nursery hours

what a waste of money

just makes me think none of them know what the heck they are dooing

Removing child benefit (which allows families to choose what to do with the money) and instead offering free school meals and childcare (no choice) is the action of the nanniest of nanny states.

We'll be living in kibbutzim soon, with children living separately from their parents...

Bonsoir, I agree with you too, they should have left the CB alone in the first place - this was far less divisive than what they are trying to do now piecemeal and probably spending more money than before.

Can I set up as a child minder to look after my own children then get paid via vouchers to do it?