To disagree with 3/4 year old children having more childcare paid for

[ReallyTired]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24199711

I feel the goverment should pay for education rather than childcare. 15 hours a week is enough to meet a child's educational needs for pre school. At a time of austerity, I feel there are bigger spending priorities. (Providing enough school places for children who are of complusory school age!)

If you choose to have chidlren then you should pay to look after them. I feel that labour's set of proposals are totally unaffordable and making the "banks" pay will damage the UK financial sector long term.

All these election bribes do not help the UK in the long term.

I did work with lots of Joanne Bloggs and they all had children, most had mortgages and at least one car depending on the husband's job. Few of them had very high earning husbands. We live just outside London. It is reality for some people and comparatively, £50K is a lot despite what you may said!

78bunion - you will get help with childcare on 40k between you.

Lalunya They are both doctors who are training to be consultants and they work in central london hospitals. It is common for them to both be working through the night and their hours are horrendous. If they are not working they are studying or doing research. They both need cars as the tube doesn't work 24/7 and they need to be able to get to work at odd times. Their nanny works as much as 60hrs/wk, sometimes overnight etc. They have been trying to move to another hospital up north but there needs to be vacancies for both of them in the area. My friend is seriously thinking about leaving her job to enable a move up north. It would be a huge shame if this happened.

Jasmine you don't get JSA as a single parent, unless you are constantly looking for work and showing evidence of that. If you don't you are penalised (swiftly) and lose your benefits and go onto income support.

passedgo, you don't go onto income support if you are sanctioned. JSA stops and unless you apply and are awarded hardship payments then all they would have is CHB & CTC to live off. Hardship payments are a % of normal JSA amounts.

Single parents are given more flexibility when looking for work. You can restrict hours to school hours term time(though you have to be available for more hours during the holidays) and limit your search and availability to work you can find affordable and suitable childcare. How much flexibility depends on age of the children.

People keep mentioning the £26k benefit cap when doing the calculations. It is a cap. Most average sized families will have less than that and for those on higher benefits a large chunk will be housing benefit.

A rough calculation is £71 for a single parent + £60 CTC per week per child + CHB.
A couple get about £111 per week + CTC and CHB.

Travel costs don't necessarily disappear when on benefits. Obviously they are less than daily commuting.

"I think the good thing about this thread is that those on lower incomes can see those on higher incomes often have the same net income they do and they never realised it."

I agree and it is a point I have made repeatedly on MN: the economics of working for second earners in a family are not the same as the economics for first earners. When a second adult goes out to work, they need to subtract the sometimes very significant costs of replacing themselves at home. Those costs rise as incomes rise, because jobs with more responsibilities incur longer hours and travel, hence more childcare and domestic cover.

78bunion - you will get help with childcare on 40k between you.

Myself & DH earn £40k between us and we don't qualify for anything other than CB. DS in full time nursery, £670 pm.

???

Sorry I was talking about with 2 kids

Those costs rise as incomes rise, because jobs with more responsibilities incur longer hours and travel, hence more childcare and domestic cover.

Those on lower income will probably always be on lower income. Their salary might increase with inflation, but over time they aren't going to see a significant change in their finances.

With those on higher incomes in career/professional type jobs, salaries tend to increase at a higher rate as they progress up the ladder.

As the years go by the higher earner will be better off.

I hate gorge osbourne apparently southwest most expensive outside london house prices ot sure means devon cornwall or bristol/bath.

I have freinds family in wales housings cheaper but petrol, bridge costs and few jobs over there.

I have cousin moving back as said bristols too high.

i played about with entitled to benefits calculater.

put on 21 k rent,2kids 1 income.

came out with 400 housing -rents 700
150quid week child tax credits.

so £1000 on top of 1300 approx next salary.

puts net amount similar to hubbys 41k net figure.

plus think meant we entitled to help dentistry/opticians other stuff.

the threshold free school meals is quite low think its just over 16k but school dinners is £40 month here if you had 2 or more its quite a saving.

I think all depends on if you brought at right time.

if not then living costs are high

things like food/energy cost us all same.#

private tennents pay some crazy rents as been looking to move but lots 1000 -1500 for 4bed surburan bristol. some not even that nice its crazy prices.

so i accept that theres huge gap in outgoings depending on region if you have social housing.

I hate to agree with labour but think 25hours good worry is how heck they going to pay for it.

i say thsi as cant afford youngest to be preschool right now and term after 3rd birthday seems like such long time ago.

depends if preschool early years education or childcare/

i can see benefits its had with older 2.

but once again feels like abribe why dident they suggest this and capping energy when they in power.

im bit distrustful of all main parties right now.

I dont think you need cleaners regardless of how many hours you work, but with this policy all second earners will get the 25 hours so costs will be low bonsoir.

Really? Having a cleaner can be an excellent childcare solution when DC are older - when you work long hours, your cleaner comes in the evenings and can keep an eye on things while she works and make dinner for DC.

But those kind of practical solutions won't be catered for by this legislation.

You dont need that though. You just have to work round it like all other long hour working dual income families

Yes, may depend on number of children if childcare cost is provided. However if you work full time in London with a 1 hour commute and it would be a rare £40k job where you could leave on the dot of 5 every night too then 15 hours a week by the state just is not much use and also many decent places cannot affod to provide it at those rates and if you have to have a day nanny because your hours are long and you have to have a child with a cold etc still cared for when nurseries would not have them then childcare hours/money off is not going to be given to our full time worker on £40k a year. You might get a voucher off a term's fees at a morning nusery school but you still need your nanny or au pair to look after the child from 8 - 9.30 drop off and then leave at 11.30 to collect the child at noon and bring it home and look after it until 6 or 7.

The current "free" childcare for a few hours is not really a childcare option at all except for school dinner ladies working about 3 hours a day or home working for pin money.

Tax deductibility for the £30k gross cost of a year's childcare for your 3 small children for full time working parents would be much more useful. They have even excluded nannies from the new £2k a year national insurance holiday for small employers and yet those small employers who employ a nanny and are subject to the triple tax explained above (NI on your gross wage as an employee), then employer NI on your nanny's wage and then the nanny's NI need the support more than anyone.

Here I just send mine to childcare 7.30-6 and then people get childminder to pick up from there to cover rest of hours.

A dinner lady would need to work in the middle of the day.

From what I recall you had to pick either morning or afternoons at state preschool and at the private nursery. At the private nursery the free 15 hours gave a discount off the fee.

jasmine, does your childminder pick up at 7:30 am or do you drop off at that time? Either way that's a long day for you and the children.

I don't personally think that supervision of DC after school and until late dinner time is anything but essential.

I dont need childminder but I know people that do. We do 7.30-6 but its not that long really. Dc still do clubs, swimming lessons, see friends around it. Its not really that long really.

I agree Bonsoir and trying to find suitable childcare for that slot is nearly impossible. Tonight I have picked them up (with extra one and suitable snack) Driven to riding class and had convo there to source straw for Tudor thatched roof for school project, had different but vital conversation about half term riding course. Driven home, supervised 9 year old's algebra (which he needs help with so a moderately proficient mathematician). Done spellings with 7 year old. Sorted out riding and gym stuff including kit for tommorow.Supervised 7 playing out with neighbour, kept an eye on what 9yo was up to on computer whilst sorting laundry and cooking dinner.

That's the reality of after school childcare and very few childcare professionals want the job. Luckily DH and I can split so one of us does it 4/5 nights. The other night (Friday ) we have an arrangement as you describe but she is happy to clean and cook (indeed that's what she is paid for) she is much less keen on supervising homework and as to ferrying th around forget it.

TBH this is one of the reasons I'm pleased I stayed working through those expensive early years. I know it's a cliche but I think they do need one of us more now then when they were toddlers and happy at nursery.

I imagine whether 7.30-6 is long hours depends on the age of your child and how long they sleep. Until recently my six year old slept 7pm-8am and even now with 7-7 would be almost only home to sleep on childcare hours of 7.30-6 so for some children it would be a long day.

You have to train them up from a young age really.Dds sleep 7pm - 6am. I just have arrangements so she can do the clubs at school her friends do, and they have swimming lessons on sat. Weekends its kids entertainment all weekend. They dont have a choice anyway this is the way it is so kids adapt to whatever really. Its for the greater good.

Where has the op gone?

How old are your DC, jasminerose?

I think sleep requirements just depend on your child rather than training so your children just happen to be okay on eleven hours a day. I really notice the difference if my six year old doesn't have her full twelve hours for whatever reason whereas my one year old doesn't even sleep eleven unless she is ill and clearly doesn't need the sleep.

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