To speak to the school?

[Orchwoid]

I've just been to collect my son from his school and he's told me that he won't be cast in his school Christmas play but all the other children will.

I am fumming. I am going to go and speak to his teacher first thing tomorrow morning but I am so angry that I can't work out whether I'm being reasonable or not.

The whole point is that he will hear the Nativity Story, it will say that Jesus is the Son of God etc etc, he could dress up as the Lobster from Love Actually but he will still be part of the nativity. I can't see how this is different from the 10 minute (probably less at most schools) part of the assembly. If you are ok with the nativity then you should be ok with assemblies. I also think children should learn about other religions, it doesn't make them religious, just informed and knowledgable about the world!

If this is for real the OP couldn't more more unreasonable if she tried. I think she was extremely rude and that is why people got on her back straight away.

In my DCs assembly they do a bit more religion than most other schools but it is not a church school, we knew that when they joined. They say a prayer, sing a hymn then talk about non-religious stuff to do with school. It does them no harm and I refuse to put my views on them when it comes to religion, I have a friend who does (she tries to pretend she doesn't) but said to her son that she does not believe in God but its up to him if he does, a 5 YO will just listen to what their parent says surely. I have no issue either way but you cannot say one thing then ask for another!

I think there's an interesting wider issue about the religion of children - OP is atheistical, but is her son? When did he get to choose whether or not he should participate in religious/spiritual activities?

I was brought up Christian and am atheist upsets a huge amount of people when they learn I read Theology while DH is lapsed RC. I asked 16mo DD this morning what religion she followed and she said 'shoooooes' very loudly. Her worshipping at the Altar of Clarks aside, why should she be automatically atheist just because I am, or RC like Daddy?

So until I know what religion DD is she goes down on forms as either unknown or other. Causes a right headache but who am I to tell her what she believes in? Until she tells me I'm not telling anyone one way or another. So she can take part in nativity plays and anything else she fancies because it's her activity, not mine.

(no, she hasn't been baptised, but if she decides she wants to be then we'll organise that. She's more interested in weeing on the floor at the moment.)

YouTheCat do you work in a school? If it is not sorted before half term then it is disasterous. My DCs already have it booked into their timetable at school!

I think the OP's quandary is the best possible illustration of the wise old saying, "be careful what you wish for"

I don't think all Christians do understand the bible as the direct word of god, although some do. People who study the bible academically tend to take into account the historical context and pov of the writer.

Otherwise you would have to assume that God wasnt very goid at taking notes as he was going along.

Filee if somebody wanted their child to be excluded from religious practice in a primary school I would tend to assume they meant everything - not just some bits. It would be up to them to explain that this wasn't the case. Equally, I would assume a vegetarian didn't eat fish unless they told me otherwise.

You have to take into account that there are other children in the class, and this week some of them may have had more pressing problems than the op's. the answer is for the OP to have a friendly word with the teacher, not to fume.

I do work in a school. Nothing will be put forward to parents until after half term at the earliest, other than the date, though there may be ideas being put forward about the production now.

Ideas in the staffroom that is.

Just because in western society, most people nominate their midwinter festival as the birth of Christ(give or take 4 years), there is no reason to tell the rest of us that we cannot celebrate at that time of year too.
It's not down to you to tell me what I can and cannot celebrate just because I don't believe in same flavour of deity as you.
Shouting CHRISTmas as a reason is pretty stupid if you haven't looked up where the word Easter comes from. Clue: the eggs came first in this case.
Schools in multi cultural societies running mid winter festivals as Christian based is discriminatory. This is excluding children whose parents have naively not realised that choosing to remove their children from religious indoctrination implicitly removes them from sharing a community celebration with their classmates.
The schools should have a split permission form for children to
A) participate in religious education
B) particulate in festivals, religious based and otherwise.

when you say pagan, filee, which pagan traditions are you thinking of?

The birth of Jesus, which is what the Nativity play is about, is celebrated the world over, in countires that do not have our historical association with certain winter traditions. Of course the way we celebrate it has been influenced by pagan traditions but the central part of Christmas is the birth of Jesus, which is not pagan.

No-one is saying that the festival of Christmas does not have elements of paganism in it, filee, just that the central fact of Christmas is the birth of Christ, which is what a Nativity play is all about.

the answer is for the OP to have a friendly word with the teacher, not to fume.

^^

This!

MrsMelons 12:41:02
CommanderShepard 12:44:35
Those are the two most sensible posts in this whole thread.
The OP should open her mind, read them and act accordingly.

I agree with fileee that school could have been wise enough to think about feelings of the child if the parent didn't.

I don't think what Op does is reasonable but if the parent is unreasonable at least school teachers should be. Somebody has to think about this boy and his feelings too. OP probably does but in a very non-logical way and school seems to take a stand "if mother behaves this way let's punish her and not care about the boy". This is really unacceptable.

I would expect a teacher before breaking news on non-participation to the child to call parents in, explain to them that since this this play is nativity play, there are no non-religious roles and that parens need to explain the reasoning of non-participation to him with school willing to help in any way.

No we wouldn't tell the parents but maybe the children, who may tell the parents, it would definitely be written etc by now though.

At my DCs school they do a huge production with all of infants and juniors including seniors doing set design and lighting so preparation is well underway they'd better not sing xmas songs at home yet

milkulkin I agree to an extent, however I think the analogy used with the vegetarian/fish does also make sense in this situation.

Celebrating a religious event (for any religion) is only discrimating against those who feel they need to hide their child from beliefs which are different to theirs as parents.

A child will make their own choice as they grow up which will be influenced by parental beliefs (positively or negatively depending how the parents act) and other life experiences.

Personally I want DS to be educated in the beliefs of all faiths, and take part in activities which represent that faith. It is something that as a parent you are very limited in how much you can do but schools have the ability to provide that.

DS's school did a nativity play with aliens in, one year.

We wouldn't tell the children until parts have been finalised. Our school has a gold arts mark and does a whole load of productions every term. Sometimes I wonder how we find the time to teach them anything as there are always rehearsals going on for something or other.

Auditions will take place after half term at some point for the Christmas production.

Wow, the school sounds brilliant YouTheCat, I would have loved going there. I love it that the DCs school does more than their old school.

It's not to do with "punishing"anyone! parents have the right to remove children from religious acts of worship in school. This has been requested by OP & as such her child was not put in the play as that forms part of religious worship ie carol singing, acting out the story of Jesus' birth etc & probably prayers.

OP wants her child to be in said play (on stage I would imagine) but this conflicts with her previous request. So, the solution is in her hands if she wants to revisit her previous decision. The school won't refuse him a part to "punish" him. In fact, they may well have thought "poor little mite being excluded from play let's make sure he has a good part in any non religious performance they put on, I probably would!

It is a fab school. The choir has sung at the Albert Hall. There is always so much going on.

I agree with filee -

basically, this whole thing has been badly handled. I feel so sorry for the poor child in the middle of it all.

when it becomes an issue for my child (next year, unless nursery are involved which I doubt they are, will be discussing such things with them in a week or so) I'll be making an appointment and going in to TALK about what I do and don't want him involved in (plays, lessons where at no point is he told "this is truth" about anyone's holy book, festivals for any religion... anything educational like that is fine. being made to take part in "collective worship" is not, nor is being told that ANY religion is what's true)

the OP could have saved herself a lot of anger and her poor child a lot of distress if she had made clear exactly what was and was not acceptable at the beginning of her child's time in that school.

I wonder if the situation is the same as at the primary DS went to. There the Year 6's would get the parts and the younger children would all have something to do, such as take part in a dance or sing as part of a group, but not have a main 'part' as such. DS's school thought this was the fairest way to organise everything and it makes a lot of sense.

So basically if the op had better spelling and grammar then she wouldn't be being ridiculed and attacked?

Nice guys, really nice.

The issue isn't the spelling and grammar but her attitude and apparent lack of consideration of the impact of the decision she has made. Seems to have been a rash decision rather than a well thought out rational one.

Wildmeanfairlyhipkid - I don't think anyone is saying that non-Christians can't celebrate their hearts out at midwinter. What we are saying is that Christmas is a Christian festival, and that therefore Christmas does belong to Christians.