To speak to the school?

[Orchwoid]

I've just been to collect my son from his school and he's told me that he won't be cast in his school Christmas play but all the other children will.

I am fumming. I am going to go and speak to his teacher first thing tomorrow morning but I am so angry that I can't work out whether I'm being reasonable or not.

Midnite scribbler - interestingly, that was the response at one of our local schools too.

Communication, as always, is the key. OP's child is upset that they're not in nativity. OP has two options:

1. Explain to child why you do not want them to join in with any "god shit"; or

1. Ask to see teacher, explain that you have considered this specific case and would like your child included. Please.

Simples really. But not as much fun as this thread.

Only on pg 7 of 9 and I saw this:
^TheOriginalSteamingNit Wed 18-Sep-13 21:58:22
But the shepherds went to see the baby JESUS because they thought shitty god wanted them to! They were only there to give baby JESUS presents!

You could see if ds could be a non gift giving shepherd, maybe. Or he could take a bomb or some poison or something?^

Maybe he could be the practical shepherd and bring a bit of wood and a few nails??? (or is that a bit too sensitive to suggest)

then they are not celebrating Christmas, they are celebrating Yule or the winter solstice. Nobody is saying that those celebrations aren't older than Christmas or that they don't exist, and of course aspects of those festivals such as decorating your house with evergreen at Christmas, have been 'borrowed' from those older festivals.

You don't seem to be able to understand that Christmas stands alongside other winter festivals, and that out of those festivals Christmas is the Christian one. And of course globally the celebration is more connected to Christianity than not, as many countries that celebrate it won't have a winter solstice then, and didn't have any kind of pagan festival at that time of year in the past anyway.

Filee - agree with what you say about other festivals but we are talking about christmas which is not pagan its christian. there is not argument .

I quickly flicked onto MN whilst a file was loading at work but now I have read all 36 pages, this is the funniest thread I have read in ages.

hanging and talkativejim you are geniuses!!!

I cannot believe MrsDV got deleted.

I also think Louise did this on purpose for a laugh - she is not your friend OP!!

So back on topic...
I would imagine that many of the parents who are letting their children be in the Nativity (and probably angsting about what part their LO's get)and do the assemblies aren't particularly religious at all tbh, they just want their children to be a full part of school life.

People do realise that lots of the nativity contains 'pagan shit' as apposed to 'god shit' because its a cultural representation of the time of year?

People really ought to learn their roots!

As my old mum used to say 'there's nothing new in this world'.

they just want their children to be a full part of school life
Yes Dobbiesmum, you have it.
And you need to think very hard about the consequences before interfering with the child's part in the school life.

We're getting close to the end of this thread....
What happens then?

I am not particularly religious but I want my DCs to be involved in it all at school as they need to make up their own minds. Ds2 said he felt safe as god looks after him, I am fine with that if thats what he believes.

I think I would assume that if a letter had been written withdrawing a child from collective worship then they would not wish them to take part in a nativity play but I think the school could have clarified it DEPENDING on the content of the letter as if that said they didn't want their child to be involved in anything involving a religious theme then they would not really need to ask as that is pretty clear!

Dobbiesmum - i am one of those mums.

Im not religious but my dd attends assemblies and takes part in the nativity. Why, because i think it is good for her to take part in all parts of school life.

There is no harm in it.

No, Louise is not your friend OP. if she was your friend she would have said "oh dear it sounds as though there has been a misunderstanding. I can see you are upset. You should have a chat with the teacher to clarify the implications of excluding your ds from religious events."

Could the OP suggest a new part for her (imaginary) child - the completely uninvolved atheist shepherd, who could bid hello to the other shepherds on their way to the nativity? They could know him already he could have a bit of a back story - "greetings Orchodus, is your spotted ewe quite recovered now? " "yes thanks, ye other shepherds"

I very much hope that before the end of the thread the OP comes back to tell us that she has allowed her child to take part in the nativity play, in a role that the teachers find to suit him. He will be happy and the teachers will be happy. A happy Christmas!

sally that's an awful mindset, the school should help pupils feel involved as much as possible.

I don't think anybody is disputing that, filee. The timing of Christmas and lots of traditions have come from paganism for a variety of reasons. What you seem to be arguing is that the celebration that is now known as Christmas in this country is not associated with Christianity and the birth of Jesus. Which is a fairly unique perspective even among atheists and pagans.

That's your opinion filee, and you are entitled to it :)

WTAF!? Wind up yes?

I have spat toast all over my monitor. Twice.

Once at
The part of Herod is probably appropriate for an atheist.
We atheists don't generally like to kill babies.

And then again at
What does PA mean?
Personal attack, like if I said 'JulieMumsnet is fucking stupid', that's a PA (and I'm not deleting myself for this!)

Send him to my school, OP. They sing One Direction in assemblies, and I had to look suitably supportive when DS wasn't chosen to be the rat in the Christmas play.

The school are taking one tiny part of the Christmas celebration and traditions in the play- the Christian part. I don't see how anyone can take the birth of Christ from the gospels and argue that it is all about the pagan festival.

Christmas is a cultural tradition, that's why lots of people celebrate it who are not Christians.

With you there, filee- it is just that the school happen to be taking the Christian part from the Bible.

Surely it's up to both the parent and the teachers to help a small child feel involved? There is no harm in allowing a child to dress up as a shepherd or whatever and singing a couple of carols. In fact I would argue that it will hurt him to be excluded from something this big when everyone else is doing it. My DD's year did a Nativity last year, one of the Kings happened to be Muslim. His parents were there and were as proud as the rest of us.
What can singing Little Donkey at one time of the year actually do to him? Come to think of it what can singing Morning has Broken once a week do? It won't brainwash him into becoming an Evangelical Christian, DS doesn't believe at all even after one assembly a week that included a hymn and a prayer. DD does at the moment, that may change, it may not, it's up to them. I went to church every week for 15 years, was in the choir, served at the altar and taught Sunday School. I now celebrate Mabon, Samhain and Yule.
People really do need to grant their children the intelligence to figure out their own mind.

No, a midwinter festival is a cultural tradition. Christmas is a midwinter festival that specifically celebrates the birth of Christ. Hence it is a Christian festival.

The fact that it has now expanded to include a celebration of overindulgence and shopping non-religious midwinter celebration, does NOT change the fact that Christmas is rooted in Christianity.

If there were no Christianity, there would be no Christmas. There would be some other midwinter festival, but it would not be Christmas!!