To be mad with DD over this?

[nicknamegame]

DD is 6, and although generally an ok sleeper, she still tends to wake early at weekends etc. The issue I have is that when she has woken up, she pretty much won't give up until I get up too. Not unusual in kids I guess, but I'm kinda wondering when dd will entertain herself or not make such a dramatic entrance into our room in the mornings. She literally 'runs' into the room as though someone's chasing her and invariably whacks the bedroom door against the wall, which generally means I get woken pretty unpleasantly. If she wakes in the night ( she has episodes of waking at least once a night for weeks at a time), it will also be a running/whacking the door entrance which scares the shit out of me tbh)
If I send her back to her room, she will come back in EVERY 5 minutes, literally will not give up, so getting back to sleep is impossible and weekends usually start with one of those groggy headaches.
This morn she woke up at 6, and did her usual of 'bursting' dramatically into my room. We have visitors who she loves and wanted to wake them up as well- I refused to let her, so said she could either get in my bed for a cuddle or go back in her room, she stood there sulking demanding to be allowed to go up and jump on said visitors. I saw red at her standing there pouting and whining, and having to deal with a potential tantrum before even opening my eyes so I shouted at her to get back to bed, waking up my OH beside me.

Since then, DD has now burst back into my room on 10 minute intervals, (the last one dressed in Santa Claus outfit (funny!). I lost my rag though and physically frogmarched her back to the room, shouting.
She's in there now sobbing, and I've woken the visitors anyway because I can now hear them upstairs. It's now also time to get up so technically she got what she wanted - just took a bit longer than she would have liked. I know was BU shouting and reacting, but sometimes I feel my DD is a classic only child (sorry- usually hate that term) in that she refuses to entertain herself and sees me and my needs as completely irrelevant. She bursts into the bathroom when I'm on the toilet, and if I send her out, she will stand outside laughing into the gaps in the hinges about 'what I'm doing on the toilet' etc. If I'm eating something she wants she will try harass me til I give it to her, or she will 'monitor' what I eat, so if I give her one biscuit and I have two, she has her eye on my other biscuit the whole time she is eating her own, commenting on why I have more than her.

Writing it down - I think she doesn't know she is a child or at least that I'm an adult!
I kinda figured I would get a little more personal space as she got older and I'm resenting the fact that I don't.

Am I being unreasonable? Unrealistic maybe? I feel guilty now that she's upset but sometimes I wish I could make her see that it's ok to be awake on her own, or that it really isn't ok to not allow me personal space at times.

i am bloody useless with rewards/stickers so wouldn't suggest that but do have a ds that could tantrum his way in an empty room at 6/7 and i had an awful period of just shouting which made me feel crap....

I started with the don't screech/scream etc to me come back when you can speak- have even sent him into the garden...(do you have a trampoline- would tell him to go and bounce)

just turned the tv off if he moaned - also played the waiting game you cannot out stubborn me.....

at first went quite cold turkey - everytime he started no matter what - I did that , made him write in the late book at school etc

now am at stealths place where I just say what happens when you moan/whinge.....he has a good stomp sometimes but hey ho - it is a lot less frequent and he is much easier to be around and so much better company - now often its an eyebrow lift or I turn it round and make a joke about it - ha ha you cannot be serious me pick up your toys ha ha or lets do it together - but we did have to be consistent ...

nick It was just the use of the word respect which implies that she behaves deliberately badly, from what you say she doesn't sit and think about how to approach a situation at all and there needs to be understanding in how you react. It might just because she's hungry IFYSWIM.

i found that the sticker charts meant that him and his sbro and sis wanted rewarding for things they should be doing and noone was going above and beyond the bare minimum so that didnt work. now it revolved around pocket money on roosterbank i will take a small amount say 5p for bad behaviour/attitude and it will keep going if the answering back does. i dont shout if i can help it ( but will admit to doing so when its all gets too much) same with little jobs that arent getting done i only ask once then money starts to be lost. i do give rewards for good behaviour, above and beyond stuff but not stuff that should be being done anyway.

Re the sticker charts etc - yes of course she should be rewarded for being good! You're getting some conflicting info on this thread but I think rewards for good behaviour is definitely something the experts tend to suggest. (I know experts disagree too but anyway...) You can have a reward system like a pasta jar where you take them away for bad behaviour and put them in for good, or a sticker chart where you get a sticker for a good morning with nice behaviour and not barging in early - and yes you can have one chance - e.g "You want to get your sticker for doing well this morning - this is your chance to get back into bed until 7!"

I went on a parenting course and while I'm not suggesting for a second it has made me a perfect parent, I did respect the knowledge and experience of the course leader. She said one of the biggest problems with bad behaviour is that it parents always notice and react to it, then the child gets ignored when they are good (because of course it's not posing any problems so busy parents just don't notice it so much). So some children learn to kick off just to get any kind of attention and feel any kind of control - that's well-known I think.

So yes reward and also frequently praise good behaviour - we say things like "That was nice asking" "Well done for playing nicely while I was cooking" "You were so good at the supermarket, shall I put a pasta piece in the jar?"

Boozy- 123 magic worked wonders on my dd when she was a tot but then I wasn't consistent enough and she went back to her old waya(so did I!) so I will dig it out again, thanks for reminding me how good it is!

I was just about to recommend 123 Magic but BoozyBear beat me!

It works. Just that really. Your little madam needs to learn consequences and the 123Magic way is firm but not harsh.

We have a sticker chart that rewards good behavior. We have punishments (for want if another word) for not behaving well.

A full chart is worth £10 - his pocket money for the month. He gets stickers for getting dressed and going to school without a fuss, helping out etc. Basically a sticker means he has had a good day. Two stickers for a remarkable one. Stickers come off for things agreed in advance. DH is driven mad, by ds not flushing the loo. It sounds a bit strange but we all understand what the,rules are. It takes at least a month or more to fill the chart. We try to take Ds to the shop to spend his money as soon as possible.

To discourage more serious behavior we don't want we have a warning and consequence. DS went through a very grumpy and cheeky phase last year. School drop off was a nightmare. He was warned once and told what,would happen. No TV worked well for him. There were also rewards for behaving well all week. A trip to the park, friends over, bowling.

I'm sure your daughter is lovely but she also has some bad behaviors. The morning wake up call would infuriate me. Keep calm and try not to engage. You need to change the rules of engagement.

My ds has never used pester power. He had a friend over to sleep and I found it hard to deal with. In the end I just said that that the answer was no and wouldn't change. We bought popcorn for when we watched a movie before bed. Little boy must have asked 50 times if he,could have it yet. In the end I said if he asked again, it would stay in the cupboard. He didn't but I would have stuck to my guns.

Yes LadyBigToes The' reinforce good behaviour' is a brilliant way to manage DCS.

Oh nick what you're going thru is a typical blip. Everyone has one, about something. One persons child will moan, one will be a bit spoiled acting, one won't eat, one is a nightmare at school etc etc. We all have them. Ds is nearly 13 and dd is 8, we've had blips.

You know your little girl. Better than anyone else. You also know yourself. You've been really honest but not being consistent and what your situation is. I for one think you're just a normal parent and your little girl is just a normal little girl having a push of boundaries and some issues getting to grips with how friendships work. You'll find a solution I'm sure because you are acknowledging the issues. That's half the battle.

You will find a solution and it will get better and pass.

I think it easy for people to say you should do this/should have done that.

I agree about reward charts - they are a bit like the 'reward stickers' some children get at school for doing what they should be doing rather then the children who are good.

Anyway back to you I think the place to start is to talk to your dd when she gets home from school and explain why what happened this morning happen. And then go on from there.

How about instead of 'house rules' make them 'family rules' and include some which just relate to you and your DP so she can see it is not just about. But also add consequences for her. E.G. Coming into your room before 7am she looses 5min of TV time for every time she does it (well also help with her maths ) and every time she stays in her room until getting up time she gets a marble/pasta in a jar and when got to 30 she gets a treat. But will also loose them for bad behavior.

I mean after all it no going to improve over night, but everything you can do to help her improve to where you want her to be is a step in the right direction.

Neena, that's really kind and makes me feel better. She is lovely. Just recently for example my friends 2 year old bit the heads of a chocolate mouse collection she had in her room. It was her pride and joy. My dd handled it so well, saying that he was 'only a baby' and when his mum bought her a replacement bar of chocolate, she gave half of it to the little boy. I was so proud of her and while I know she has some spoiled behaviours, she isn't a brat. That I am sure of.

Thank you all so much for the input, I'm going to decide this evening wish sticker chart to draw up!

I am certainly not suggesting rewarding with anything over and above normal things a child would have. More that a link is made between the nice things you do as a family and the nice behaviour and courtesies that you expect in the family too.

I think slamming your door is disrespectful. It is unkind for her to wake you like this, especially if you are unwell. I wouldn't accept hunger as an excuse. Ds is starving when he wakes. He has supper and has to wait for breakfast. He is allowed fruit anytime.

Nick I think most parents have been where you are with something. I also think what you said about the bad bits not being the whole of your daughters personality wasn't picked up on. If dd was lovely about something like the mouse I would possibly have popped another star on the chart and made it clear I was proud of such lovely and thoughtful behaviour.

As an adult I respond much better to being asked nicely and things being phrased in the positive than the negative. Kids are no different and the star chart has always allowed me to change the yelling etc to a threat, then a consequence and then that's that. I hope it helps.

Can I just add support for the clock. My 6yo ds had this problem until I knuckled down and thought it was about time (none intended) I taught him to read a clock. He always had a teaching clock but it was stuffed in a drawer! He got it in one night and was keen to show me that he knew when to come in our bedroom (when the hands show 7am), and after 2-3 weeks this is now the norm for him.

Good luck. oh, and the clock is a Lorus, you can get it from Amazon I think.

You see nickname that is lovely that she handled the chocolate so well and you could reward that. But please be careful not to reward behaviour that should be normal i.e. not asking you to change channel, not coming into your room at the crack of dawn, getting dressed etc.

We had a chore chart that worked well in our house, dd got a daily star for doing jobs she helped choose i.e. making her bed, opening her curtains and bringing down her water class before school, setting the table for dinner, giving her room a 10 minute tidy, polishing the sitting room. It wasn't so much about the chore but more for her to be aware of helping out and taking responsibility but it involved lots of well done's etc. So please reward extra good behaviour and not what should be normal practice.

Thank you, I think it's easy to get drawn into only thinking negative things about your child when you've had a bad day, but it's worth taking a moment to point out that as you say- it isn't her entire personality. She regularly wins pupil of the week for helping others and the adjective above her name peg at school is 'kind xxxx'. It's this little person that I want to draw out of herself and see her become a 'kind' adult.

I think you have had loads of people who have been through similar and given very good advice. You have come back every time saying things like 'please don't think shes like it all the time' and trying to explain more a bout all the things you have already done and tried discussing with her. they are excuses - you are making them. If you stopped trying to explain yourself and listened to what people were saying you may learn something. It isn't easy, there isn't one way that will work overnight, it is hard being a parent and no one is underestimating how difficult this is going to be for you except perhaps yourself who wants easy result with not much pain - it isn't going to happen.
Take on board what people have suggested, don't argue back - which you are- try listening to dd instead of answering back and see where that gets the pair of youx

Cjel, if you've actually read the thread you'll see that I've been very honest about my own failings. You'll also see I've asked for suggestions and said that I'll get the clock, and the sticker charts as well as work on my inconsistency. I've also thanked people for being kind enough to take the time to advise me. You however, seem to think that if I mention dd's strengths alongside her shortcomings (and indeed my own) that somehow I am in denial or I want an easy way out. Really, your interpretation of my posts doesn't make sense, except of course to chastise me, which you've done. Twice.

I.get.it

except.you.still.need.to.argue.!!!!!!

But out of everyone on this thread, you're the only one saying that I haven't taken the advice on board and that I'm arguing, Its weird!
This has been a really helpful thread for me and I not only feel better after a really crappy day and beating myself up about my parenting, but I've taken away lots of ideas and links to look at this evening.

Wasn't it you upthread who said it takes two people to argue and that if you don't want to argue then just stop? So here you have it: stop!

Yay nickname good luck!

Hello OP - went through similar stuff with DS (he's an only).

For the morning thing, we got him a clock for his room. He has a chart where he 'earns' screen time - each smiley face is worth 10 mins of either watching TV or playing on the computer. He gets a 'morning smiley' if he doesn't wake us before 7am, eats breakfast nicely, and gets himself ready for school with no reminding. Then we do a big deal with lots of praise when we give him the smiley on his chart. If he hasn't done it, no smiley. We don't make a big deal if that happens, but later in the week when he wants to go on his DS I'll say 'Well, do you have any smileys to use?' I don't tell him off, it's just a consequence.

We found it worked better if he 'earned' rather than taking it away as a 'punishment' - I was having the same problem of feeling that our interactions were too negative and this made it positive. Also on his chart he gets smileys for doing homework etc and then he can get 'bonus smileys' for speaking nicely, being helpful, doing chores etc etc. It works out that he usually can earn quite a bit of screen time if he's behaving well. Every time he wants to watch TV/play on DS or computer we see how many minutes he's earned, he decides how many 'smileys' he wants to use on that day and we cross them out as he uses them.

It works well because he was wanting to be a 'little adult' and this was a way of giving him responsibility and independence - a way of him being 'grown up' and earning things for himself. And it's a positive interaction instead of a negative one.

For the toilet I sat him down and gave him a 'Wow, you're so grown up now' talk that included 'Now that you're getting grown up, part of that includes privacy. Is there anything that you feel private about?' (We agreed then that he'd like me to knock before I come in his room, which I have stuck to.). Then I explained that he couldn't come into the toilet when I was there because he's not a 'little boy' any more, he's a 'big boy'. He forgot the other day and started to unlock the door from the outside when I was in the toilet, I told him 'no' and he stopped. Then I came and found him and said 'You forgot that you're a big boy now, didn't you? Remember, babies can come in when their mummies are in the toilet - I used to bring you in with me all the time when you were a baby - but you're so grown up now that we give each other privacy.' He hasn't done it since.

We also do family meetings once a week, and get DS to add items to the agenda that he wants to discuss (people do laugh at us for this but it works!). Again it's about letting him be 'grown up' but in a positive way. The sort of item he adds is 'Can we have pasta next week?', 'I'm worried about something that happened at school' and DH and I add items like 'Let's agree a rota for chores that includes everyone in the family', 'What should our 'family rules' be?'. DS has equal talking time to us. That seems to help with the 'little adult' thing too.