To be mad with DD over this?

[nicknamegame]

DD is 6, and although generally an ok sleeper, she still tends to wake early at weekends etc. The issue I have is that when she has woken up, she pretty much won't give up until I get up too. Not unusual in kids I guess, but I'm kinda wondering when dd will entertain herself or not make such a dramatic entrance into our room in the mornings. She literally 'runs' into the room as though someone's chasing her and invariably whacks the bedroom door against the wall, which generally means I get woken pretty unpleasantly. If she wakes in the night ( she has episodes of waking at least once a night for weeks at a time), it will also be a running/whacking the door entrance which scares the shit out of me tbh)
If I send her back to her room, she will come back in EVERY 5 minutes, literally will not give up, so getting back to sleep is impossible and weekends usually start with one of those groggy headaches.
This morn she woke up at 6, and did her usual of 'bursting' dramatically into my room. We have visitors who she loves and wanted to wake them up as well- I refused to let her, so said she could either get in my bed for a cuddle or go back in her room, she stood there sulking demanding to be allowed to go up and jump on said visitors. I saw red at her standing there pouting and whining, and having to deal with a potential tantrum before even opening my eyes so I shouted at her to get back to bed, waking up my OH beside me.

Since then, DD has now burst back into my room on 10 minute intervals, (the last one dressed in Santa Claus outfit (funny!). I lost my rag though and physically frogmarched her back to the room, shouting.
She's in there now sobbing, and I've woken the visitors anyway because I can now hear them upstairs. It's now also time to get up so technically she got what she wanted - just took a bit longer than she would have liked. I know was BU shouting and reacting, but sometimes I feel my DD is a classic only child (sorry- usually hate that term) in that she refuses to entertain herself and sees me and my needs as completely irrelevant. She bursts into the bathroom when I'm on the toilet, and if I send her out, she will stand outside laughing into the gaps in the hinges about 'what I'm doing on the toilet' etc. If I'm eating something she wants she will try harass me til I give it to her, or she will 'monitor' what I eat, so if I give her one biscuit and I have two, she has her eye on my other biscuit the whole time she is eating her own, commenting on why I have more than her.

Writing it down - I think she doesn't know she is a child or at least that I'm an adult!
I kinda figured I would get a little more personal space as she got older and I'm resenting the fact that I don't.

Am I being unreasonable? Unrealistic maybe? I feel guilty now that she's upset but sometimes I wish I could make her see that it's ok to be awake on her own, or that it really isn't ok to not allow me personal space at times.

Wow I'm stressed just reading about your dd so I can only imagine how you feel! My dd was an only child until recently, she is 7, and never ever behaved like this and if she had she would never have gotten away with it so the only child reason is absolutely no excuse.

To be frank your dd sounds like a spoilt brat and it is your fault, I can't believe you change the channels for her :O

It will be hard but you can turn her into a lovely 6 year old you just have to persevere and when it's hard and you think you are being mean and you feel bad then remember this (this will sound harsh and I don't mean it to be but I am being honest) - you have to stick to being firm with her for her and your sake or else:

• She will end up with no friends, her behaviour towards her friend(s) will only mean she ends up alone and people will not want to play with her, and really you couldn't blame them?
• you will end up with less visitors, if I were the visitors that were there for this episode I would never be staying over again - would you?
• You will miss out on a lovely mother daughter relationship because frankly she doesn't sound nice to be around at all
• the problem will spiral and she will end up a spoilt, entitlement little madam who is a loner because she has no friends

I know this is your dd I am talking about and I am sure she has redeeming qualities but it's time to get tough before things get worse

All dcs are different they need boundaries but also UNDERSTANDING. Sometimes adults behave badly if they're tired,hungry or whatever why do so many people seem to think that we're always calm reliable beings and Dcs aren't?

A good idea from upthread was to give her breakfast it may be she just has low blood sugar level as you do at that time of day why should she a 6 yr old be punished because of that?Also 6 year olds sometimes can't (or forget to say what they're feeling).

And the more you do for her, the worse she will be. I have a relative who was indulged and princessy when she was a child (youngest of three) and she has turned into self entitled spoilt adult who is also bringing her child up in the same way. It sounds like you are excusing a lot of the behaviour but you are the adult - you have to stop these behaviours for her own sake. It is not because she is an only child, it's because you have enabled her.

My ds is a year younger but can also be like this too, it's har because my dh is often the one who will give in to him when I try to be stricter, so I end up the bad guy.

I sympathise. My ds is also an only child, can be lovely, and we do clamp down on rudeness so he's not too bad in that respect, but he just cannot entertain himself for 5 minutes. It's exhausting!

Exactly my thoughts majestic hurry up and take control, she will only get worse.... As for changing channels, words fail me

I so feel your pain, OP.
My step daughter and I have had some issues, largely due to the emotional impact of me oving in with her dad when it has always been him and her... It's meant that I have had to work so hard over the years to be firm but let her know that I love her.

I appreciate that it is a different situation, but there are imilarities. She sounds a lot like your DD.

Now, I have stopped shouting. I calmly explain that x y z is not ok, and I would like her to stop. If she doesn't stop I will remove x y z toy or she will have to go to her room until she is calm.

We then talk about why she thinks I am cross.

We also have time each week where we spend time together just me and her and she chooses the activity. This always happens regardless of behaviours, so we get a balance of firmness and niceness.

Good luck!

Over the channel-changing - perhaps each time you answer her demand to change the channel........you actually turn the tv OFF?
She'll soon get fed-up with that, surely?

I'm really sorry to say this, but YABU because YOU have caused this.

If she wants something, it seems to me that she will get it eventually, even if she has to go around the houses

The ONLY reason she gets her way, is because you give in, repeatedly. So she knows that if she pushes, and pushes, and pushes, she will get her way.

If she throws a strop because you won't change the tv channel, turn it off and confiscate the remotes.

If she barges into your room before 7.00 am on a weekend, then she isn't allowed out of her room until 7.30. No point in just enforcing what she is supposed to do, you have to add a deterrent, ie the extra half an hour because SHE HAS WOKEN YOU UP.

DON'T give her an enormous cuddle just because SHE wants to feel better (especially if she has had no other punishment!). SHE has created the situation. Tell her that a consequence of upsetting someone is that they get the right to feel upset and hurt, and she cannot pretend everything is ok just because she feels better.

She has learned that she can push you until you shout and react, and then you probably - out of guilt - make it up to her. What a lesson - rile people up and you get your own way.

If you decide to take a firm stand then you have to expect that the next few months will be REALLY painful as she fights back to get the control she had, because lets face it, she has been in control, not you. You have to stand firm and make her realise that the more she kicks off, the WORSE it is for her, just holding her to what was expected of her in the first place doesn't win you anything, she has to LOSE when she decides to fight you.

Oh and at 7 years old they CAN remember why they have had a punishment. My DS is 6, and he remembered darn well why we weren't stopping off at the playground after school for a week, it was because he had a monumental tantrum where I eventually had to drag him home. HE mentioned it as we walked through the playground on the way home, and he knew that it wouldn't be until the following Monday that he would be allowed to stop off. He remembered for a whole WEEK. I'm sure your DS can remember for one day!

The reason why she SAYS she can't remember is because quite frankly her behaviour is so normal to her that she can't see why she should be punished.

I don't think I've made excuses for her behaviour to be honest, I've maintained from the off that I think it's unacceptable.

I don't however want to give the impression that its all the time- because it isn't, she is also very loving and kind. With regards to her friends, dd isnt nasty to her - she just loves her madly and thinks its ok to smother her. To be honest I have tried everything to reason with her on this one, and I mean everything from talking to her, explaining that her friend doesn't 'belong' to dd, that they can still be best friends if her friend plays with other children, etc. Her teachers have always commented on dd's 'love' for her friend but kindly explain that it causes issues in the classroom because dd gets upset if she isn't say, put into her friends team for something or doesn't get to eat with her at lunchtime. I have invited other friends over, distanced her from friend at weekends to see if that helps- it doesn't. She only has eyes for this little pal and I so wish I knew how to quell the feelings she has, because she truly ties herself up in knots about her and I know it's only a matter of time before the friend outgrows her.

As for other behaviour, I know you're right. I recently showed dd how to switch channels herself - but she got bored. To be fair, it's a multi-media set up and a bit tricky. She couldn't turn it on in the mornings even if she could be bring herself to come downstairs, because it has so many buttons. She could however, switch it over and I'm point blank refusing to be summoned from the kitchen anymore. One day last week she calling me to switch it over and I told her I was busy and would do it when I finished. She then came to the kitchen and moaned and whined incessantly, so I told her it wouldn't be turned over at all now - and so a shouting match ensued. That's the thing that I hate, dd won't accept a punishment, however small (like me not turning the TV over) without a 'fight'. I can't bear the cheek/answering back, so she gets sent to her, lots of crying hysterically, and what was initially a fairly minor infraction has now escalated into being sent to bed.

Someone upthread asked me if I always give her what she wants. No- absolutely not. What I do feel is that dd herself will eventually get what she's wants (ie, she got me 'awake' at the same time as her this morn, by the incessant returning to my room. Ok she didn't get me out of the bed as she wanted, but she had me 'up' in the sense that I was reacting to her behaviour and so as someone else said, any attention better than none.

I'm sorry about the only child remark. It's just that I can't help making observations between say, my brothers children who all play independently, or my friends children etc. I find it odd that my dd follows me around the house, invades my privacy at the toilet and won't let me stay in bed if she wakes up - all things I have, (probably wrongly) attributed to being an only and not having to share space and time.

DD has dancing class tonight. She loves it. Does anyone think I should ban her from going as a punishment for this morning?

Our 3 Dcs are now adults and were bought up with understanding they're all different but not spoilt and we didn't ignore they're feelings.

Sorry 'their' feelings.

nickname No I don't think you should ban from her dancing class.

OP honestly I have been you. Your DD is my DSD two years ago.

A book I cannot recommend highly enough is 'how to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so kids will talk.' Honestly, it is brilliant.

No- let this morning go! She got it wrong, but so did you! It's much better to think out the consequences of the specific act rather than have a random punishment, she's been all day at school which is stressful enough. Let her go to dancing class, have fun together, I think you need this more than anything as you are very negative about her.

Then, at a time when you are not stressed and shouty (and you have bought a gro clock), sit down with her and explain what you need her to do in the morning ('you can sit in your room, play, get out of bed, but don't come into my room til the bunny ears pop up/it gets to 7am), how to do it, the positives (you will be happy to see her, she will get to watch TV at 7am or whatever) and what will happen if she doesn't do it (consequence, you will be too tired to do XYZ treat). Make her a star chart, she is not too little aged 6 for basic stuff like that.

You also might need to consider that she's feeling your negative feelings to her, and it gets a bit of a vicious circle, with her constantly coming to you for reassurance, not getting it and becoming more whiney/naggy. It's not that weird for a 6 year old to wake you up at 6am, irritating, and you can solve it if you want, but not that weird. My nearly 8 year old comes for a cuddle most mornings earlier than I'd like but at the moment, she seems to need that and does get anxious in bed, so rule that out before getting tough.

I think people's advice is good: set boundaries, but doing things like punishing her hours later for things this morning is just not the right way to go about it. Calm and nice instructions, limits, yes, but going all heavy handed will just produce even more confusion in her about how to act.

OP Apologies I've not read the whole thread but Aldi have grow clock type things on offer from this Thursday if they would be any use? I'm getting one for my DD!

I wouldn't ban her. If you'd told her this morning that that would happen if she didn't behave, then fair enough.

I think a sticker chart would help. Don't be afraid to involve school as well, sometimes a word from their teacher makes such a difference. I've done it in the past (though they were further up the school)and it made them think twice before they started misbehaving.

YYYYmumsy and fairy1303 YYY!!

Too late to ban her from dancing class tonight - but maybe you need a list of things that she loves that she will lose - dancing class included - for misbehaviour in the future, along with a clear list of rules (watch out for her trying to negotiate loopholes though, you need a "parent's word is final" clause)?

To be blunt, OP, my DD is 6 and I would be appalled if she behaved like you describe your DD. Not that she is not capable of tantrums and tears and cheekiness and arguing and trying to negotiate everything and crocodile tears - she definitely is and it winds me up. In the scenario that you describe about changing channel (I am sceptical about her not being able to do it, however complex, BTW - my DD can happily navigate on demand TV with multiple remote controls because she wants to watch rubbish TV and knows I won't do it for her) then DD would have been sitting on the stairs, with the TV off for the rest of the day, if she had dared to even start to shout at me about it.

I don't think you should ban her from her dancing class tonight. But I would tell her that if she does xyz - whatever naughty thing you decide on to tackle first - then maybe she will get a warning the first time and then the second time she does it, she will miss her dancing class.

It's tricky as if you are paying for dancing classes then you don't want them to miss out.

COuld you find something else that could be taken away from her if she doesn't behave? Eg that the TV will be turned off, even if just for half an hour. And if she plays in her room nicely then the tv will be turned on again for half an hour. If not, no tv.

OP, I have been you. I completely and utterly empathise with everything you're saying.

For a long time, it was only DD and I. My partner moved in last year and that was the catalyst for change in our house. Previously DD would crash in as soon as she was awake in the mornings. TBH, I'd bring her into bed and put the TV on for her, then turn over and go back to sleep. It didn't bother me so much because it was only me. DP, on the other hand, wasn't really up for this. So things had to change.

We did the clock thing. It worked a treat! And it worked really quickly. We all sat down and we explained what was happening and why. DD still tried to come in and ask if it was ok to do X, Y or Z some mornings, but she was sent away very quickly. She was told to use her judgement.

When you said about the feeling between you and DD being mostly negative and you always looking ahead to divert the next confrontation - I was with you. I spent far too long of mine and DD's life doing this. TBH, there are times when I still do it. But I made myself back off. I simply refused to let myself behave like that any more. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but things are a lot better than they used to be.

Sit your DD down and have a calm and frank chat. Explain to her that you don't like the shouting, but that you need some help from her to stop. Make a deal with her. I have had to do this several times, as we both slipped back into old habits. But we're in a pretty good place now. She can talk to DP and I about anything, and frequently does. The shouting is nowhere near where it used to be and life if (normally) quite harmonious.

Ignore those who say you're raising a spoiled brat. You're not. You're doing the best job you know how. We all are. Nobody gets it right all the time.

I wouldn't stop her going to dancing.

Felicia, thanks. It's hard to hear people referring to her as a spoiled brat. I realise I've been pretty negative about her behaviour on this thread but that's purely because of how the day started, I'm obviously not going to come on here and talk about about all the lovely parts of her personality for the sake of it, but she is truly a lovely little child in so many ways. I think her shyness in class and intensity with her friend is a lack of confidence in some ways - she is her friends shadow when they're together - it's just that my dd wants to be 'together' with her friend every spare minute and hangs off her every word. She idolises this other girl, so to be clear to other posters, there is no mistreatment of her friends.

I agree very much though that I've let things slide and that's my fault. I never follow through. I threaten to ban dancing but have never once carried it out because 1)it's expensive and I pay monthly and 2)she gets so much out of it and would be letting down team members for recitals etc, which I would feel bad about. I accept now that this is probably something she will have to suck up temporarily until she tows the line.

I'm going to get a clock, a sticker chart, and that book- today!

I have a 3yo DD very like this - of course a lot of this is more to be expected at 3 but I'm trying very hard to lay down the boundaries because I can see her being very hard work later if I don't.

I do get ratty and shout sometimes, though I try not to, and I think actually that not only doesn't work, it's almost what she's looking for, as in she likes to see me riled, just as she likes to think of things to make me do for her (giving me her litter instead of going to the bin is a classic one.)

What works best is being calm with very clear instructions. If she whines or orders me around I say, as calm and matter-of-fact as possible: "I can't hear what you're saying, I can just hear whining" or "That's not how to speak to me, you won't get anything you want by talking to me like that". She does actually know how to ask nicely and say please etc. and will do it if I stay calm and withhold what she wants until I hear it.

She is lovely when not trying it on with me and much better-behaved and more independent when not with me. I think it's just a long hard slog that you have to go through, repeatedly, calmly insisting on acceptable behaviour and showing that you mean it.

Longer-term systems with rewards are also good - like a star chart with a star for every morning she can stay in bed till 7 (or whatever time you choose) and then a reward for a full week, such as a trip somewhere nice with you giving her your full attention.

I also don't think it's an only child thing - my older DS was an only until nearly 5, then he had to deal with a very demanding sibling coming along, and he's never been like this.

Are you sure she fully understands you? 6 is way too old to not understand that no means no. I would be worried if I had a child who hadn't grasped the basics (after repetitive explanations from you) at that age.

Mintyy- really? You thinks unusual for a small child to not push the boundaries and if they do, it means they don't understand the word 'no'?
I mean I know my dd is really pushing it at the minute but I don't know any 6yo who does what they're told first time, every time.