to think the idea of a mansion tax just penalises London and the south

[Redpipe]

I will probably get flamed for saying this but I don't believe that owning a 2 million pound house automatically makes you rich. Certainly in London a 2 million will not buy you a mansion, more like a terraced family home.

AIBU to think that the idea just penalises people in the south?

Well I think her stance is pretty clear, they will have to pay the tax, even though they dont live in a mansion, just an ordinary terrace where they bought before it gentified and now is worth a stupid amount, and they dont want to pay it... pretty clear really.

She obviously can give details if she wants to. It was the fact that she did which stood out as no one else has.

I think that the great majority of people have that 'I'm alright jack' , attitude, whatasook, and would prefer to keep what they have rather than contribute part of it in tax, even if they haven't actually earned the money but have just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

I think the pensioners in 50 years time (who won't have benefited from massive rises in property and who may well have no state pension at all) will be much more deserving of sympathy than the OP's friend, relatively speaking.

Or, it says 'our advantage allows us the flexibility to plan to avoid attempts to redistribute wealth through taxation' possibly with the implication that 'you can't take it off us, so don't waste your time trying'.

I do agree dojo, we all need to pay our share, but it needs to be done fairly.

I gave some personal info, along with married. Unfortunately I don't have the options for jigging around which house I live in in order to avoid this tax - if it does start to impact on me. Depending on how it works, and I'm still not sure how the valuations would work, I would have to consider moving but that would be to a whole different borough, taking DCs out of school etc. It would be a bit of a nightmare - and we're not even in the top council tax band! I think I'm two from the top (can't remember) - which just goes to show what's happened to house prices since those valuations were done.

Anyway, I agree I'm rich because my house is worth a lot. Not money I can do anything with though - unless I make a significant geographical move which would be unsustainable given my job and the DCs' school. My income is ok but not enough to sustain a big new tax bill annually. I'm only really giving the info to give a sense that there are rough edges to this instrument - like the benefit tax. Makes sense from a distance but up close has some difficult implications for individuals who don't fit the bill of "mansion-owner". But again, not expecting anyone to send cash

Someone who owns a house worth 2M or more in London may or may not be wealthy. They're entitled to transparency into the tax implications of their house purchase.

But looking at it from another perspective, I'd be very concerned about my Mil, DPs if they had to move to pay this tax....ok so their houses don't come anywhere close, but it's not just about the money. Is the Gov making an option available to claim the tax from their estate after death - if so then things are not as dire. I'm not in favour of the wealthy, pensioners or not, paying their dues.
Life is comparative - dh works with people who have 3 houses abroad - no kidding, just serious wealth, we are comparatively poor but so well off in comparison to the rest of the country it's not funny....sometimes we need to remind ourselves and get a grip on reality.

I'm not in favour of the wealthy not paying their dues!

something- exactly- the rich have that advantage. Those sort of arguments are always used when governments (half heartedly) try to introduce schemes to tax the rich more (i.e. it won't work because the rich will find ways to avoid it).

whatasook- it is impossible to be truly fair to everyone but I'm certain that there is a lot of resentment up and down the country of the way that huge corporations and extremely rich individuals are able to legally dodge tax but those on average or lower salaries are forced to pay when they are already at a huge disadvantage. That isn't fair either.

I'm sure that if I knew the OP's neighbour, I would feel sympathetic towards him but, in reality, he has been v fortunate financially.

I missed your details quangle but I do agree that we all cut our cloth and a sudden change (illness, redundancy, sudden massive tax bill) will always be hard and require changes to be made.

I think Quangle's situation is a perfect summary for why the mansion tax is unfair.

Life is comparative

To a point, yes. But when you get so poor that it's eat or heat, that it doesn't mean shit.

it

The Gov only want rich people to live in London. If you can't afford it you are out. It is conservative, make rich richer and poor poorer.
It has been their main purpose since they first formed.
Why are people still so surprised.

The benefit cap will also force a lot of people out of their homes in London and the South.

There are houses in the North that are worth 2 Million, not on the same scale, but the South doesn't seem to have the same unemployment and degeneration on the same scale.

Op - your "poor" pensioner friend could do Equity Release maybe. An insurance company will give him up to 60% of the value of his house.

When he dies / goes into residential care and the house is sold then they get their money back (plus interest).

So he could get up to £1.2m out which will not just pay his mansion tax but will enable him to stop having to worry about what he spends in the supermarket.

I keep wondering how much the op thinks she or anyone needs to be rich, as she considers that 2 million doesnt do it.

I am concerned about the poor pensioner too Mum, Especially since he was originally working class. Makes all the difference that

A 2 million property anywhere in the country makes you affluent.

Do you know what I am most concerned about? That there are so many people, like the op, who are so used to living in a bubble [and that inclused a lot of MPs] that they so utterly lose sight of reality.

I couldn't give a fuck about people in £2M houses - if you don't like it, sell it.

It strikes me that there are some people with very expensive London homes are trying to pass their house off as ordinary. Try googling a place in the south wales valleys for what I see as ordinary, there's a place called maerdy which may be a good start. Try seeing if these houses are the same size, standard, design and location as yours, then consider the local amenities. Maerdy has a bus station but no train line (that got removed with the last of the coal mining era) it doesn't have a petrol station for miles but does have a working mans club (which is like a zoo on a Saturday night). Is this ordinary for you London types? No shops, no bars, no supermarkets, no petrol stations no nothing (and it's got a sizeable population so isn't seen as rural). In London the prices are much higher because you get a LOT more. You may be able to get yourself an 'ordinary' property in Maerdy for about 30k but I assure you that most London types would turn their noses up at it. So do I feel sorry for you having to pay your mansion tax......no, not a bit.

This poor guy is sitting on 2 million quid?

Sympathy? Fuck off.

Soz. :(

Chocolate, to them it is ordinary.

Or "comfortable" or "a three bed terraced house".

Tough.