AIBU to think a vicar accused of sexual assault shouldn't be visiting schools?

[AnnieLobeseder]

I've just read our school newsletter, and it says that the local vicar, who hasn't been visiting in a while because of a disciplinary injunction, will be coming back at some point soon. I knew nothing about this so Googled him, and it turns out this "injunction" was a charge of sexual assault by a local teen, and that while he hasn't admitted guilt on that, he did admit to failing to follow child protection policy.

I'm absolutely gobsmacked that the school think it's okay to have him working with children.

I'm very much opposed to visits by religious people anyway, but this really has me raging.

I've written to the school telling then I don't want this man anywhere near my children.

Of course there is the possibility that he's innocent. But why take the risk? Surely it's no huge detriment to his career if he doesn't visit schools anymore?

So he's been charged?

Sorry, "charged" was the wrong word. I meant "accused".

And I realise I'm going to get lots of people saying "but he wasn't found guilty", and "this is how the reputation of perfectly lovely men get ruined", which is fine as an intellectual exercise, until it's your own children you want to protect.

The case was dropped for lack of evidence, and apparently the community are rallying round him in support.

Personally, I'm more likely to believe the victim in a case like this.

If it's already been through the legal process and there wasn't enough evidence to go to court, then wouldn't his employers (and the school) be obliged (by law?) to let everything go back to how it was before the accusations?

You can't lose your job just because there's no evidence that what someone said about you is true.

He hasn't done anything, according to the way we test whether a law's been breached in this country.

I know that doesn't mean anything one way or another in reality, and it's impossible to say without knowing what the accusations were, who made them, why they didn't think there was enough evidence etc, but why wouldn't the community rally round if he is innocent?

I would imagine that there is zero chance that he will be allowed to be alone with one child or even a group of children - I would expect that the school would ensure that there will always be another adult present. If you hear otherwise, or that he is making any attempt to use his relationship with the school to contact children outside school, you would be justified in complaining to the school, or if necessary police.

I would also not be happy about the situation, but if he has not actually been charged and convicted, the school cannot treat him as if he is guilty.

Annie, what do you mean "in a case like this "?

'I would imagine that there is zero chance that he will be allowed to be alone with one child or even a group of children'

I would expect that of any adult in contact with children for their job exexpat, regardless of whether any accusations had been made against them.

Not sure where teachers would fit in that expectation though

What victims say should always be taken seriously by the police, and I think on the whole they do.

But once it's gone through the test of whether you can prove one way or the other, publicly, the accused has to be treated as though they've done nothing wrong (you can't, and shouldn't, regulate what people think privately).

Just on the fact that he didn't follow child protection policy, he shouldn't be working with them.

I'm biased because I don't want religion in schools. Education about culture and religion, yes. Religion, no.

It's attitudes like yours which make the lives of people wrongly accused of sexual assault so very hard to live after they are cleared of any wrong doing.

Would you be so intolerant if it was your dh/dp who had been wrongly accused?

By all means write to the school. But ask how they are going to ensure he doesn't breach child protection policies.

Sokmonsta what do you suppose is the balance of people wrongly accused of sexual assault vs people who sexually assault and get away with it? Because I would bet there are vastly more in the second category than first.

'I would expect that of any adult in contact with children for their job exexpat, regardless of whether any accusations had been made against them.'

Really? What do you think happens with nannies and childminders? Teachers? Sports coaches? You really think they're never alone with the children? FYI, they are.

I wouldn't be happy about this, there will always be suspicion, although Agent is right. If he has not been found guilty, then he has to be allowed to return to his job.

In my experience in both schools and churches, there are policies in place to say that one-to-one situations between a child and an adult in complete private should be avoided - as much for the protection of the adult as the child because, whilst rare, malicious false accusations do happen. Either there is more than one child present, or if there has to be a one-to-one situation either it takes place somewhere not-too-secluded (e.g. an office which has a window in the door so that passing adults can see in, albeit not hear) or at least that other adults are aware of what is happening and why (e.g. the school secretary or headteacher's secretary will know that child A is in the headteacher's office in order to be talked to severely about a behaviour issue, and how long it is expected to take, and would be in a position to raise concerns if they spotted any untoward pattern).

A vicar who was completely innocent could have "breached the childhood protection policy" by allowing himself to be in an unobserved one-to-one situation with a child, hence opening himself up to a false accusation. If this happened he should not have to lose or radically change his job because of this. However, because it is more likely that there was some basis to the accusation, certainly additional steps should be taken to ensure he sticks to the policy and is not alone with a child again.

Teachers are often in situations when you are alone with one child - its why classroom doors have windows in them, or if it doesn't we are told to leave the door open. However in practice, it doesn't always work - the 3 doors into my classroom don't have windows but all swing shut automatically. If I keep a kid behind for some reason, its because I want to talk to him about his work or behaviour privately and its not practical to summon another adult for a 1 min conversation, but technically I am not in that instance following CP procedures. There has to be an assumption of trust or realistically we can't function. This man has been through the legal process and deemed by that process to be allowed to continue with his job. Things like this are why there are so few male teachers in KS1-2. No visitors to schools are left alone anyway, so I think the OP is overreacting in this case.

anyone can accuse anyone of anything-it does not mean someone is guilty. if someone accused your son/daughter of something you would not want him/her to be condemned just because of the accusation.
you are being unreasonable

YABU
Child protection rules with respect to teens are fuzzy and often totally unworkable.

Teens join adult clubs and adult choirs, under some versions of the rules pretty much every adult in the club needs to be CRB/ or whatever it's called this week) checked.

Things like don't be on your own with a child can be totally daft, if the teen turns up early because that's the only transport she's got, it's quite possible only the person with key is there.

He may have laid himself open to accusations by failing to obey the child protection policy, but that doesn't mean he did anything unreasonable.

Conversely he may have done, that is for the police.

I liked our local vicar, he was found guilty of serious child abuse charged

Annie, I totally understand your fears, yanbu. I would definitely take this up with the school - and if you get nowhere with the child protection issue, then withdraw your children on religion grounds - they have to comply with that.

Fwiw, I am often shocked by my dc school's laissez-faire attitude to adults visiting/volunteering with the school. I have been alone with a single child/group of children countless times - both as a parent reader and on the swimming coach. The latter sometimes involved me alone in a room with groups of children getting changed - which I think is a breach of the rules? I have not been properly crb checked (just the 99 quickie test) - but of course I'm a lovely middle class mummy who is well known to the school...I honestly don't know what they'd do with in OP's situation.

YABU.

He has as much right to being innocent until proved guilty as anyone else. You either trust the school to safeguard your children or you don't, and if you think there is a genuine risk, then switch schools. If you believe your children will be safe at school, then there is no reason for this man to stop doing his job.

He may have failed to follow child protection policy, but that could mean so many different things, and I wouldn't be prepared to make a judgement on that unless I knew the details. It could be something or nothing.

I find it odd that you would be more likely to believe the 'victim'. Why?

People do make false accusations.

Oh dear. I do wish we knock this false accusations thing where it belongs. Stats show that between 3-8% of accusations are purely malicious - victims have trouble enough coming forward without being disbelieved automatically just because there isn't enough evidence for conviction. Has the conspiracy within the Catholic church really not reached people's consciousness?

Predatory paedophiles deliberately seek out positions of power over children and then society covers up for them by disbelieving their victims.

i recently read in a zoe williams column in the graun that something like for every 1 false accusation of rape there are over 1000 guilty men that are not punished. those of you who think false accusations are rife would do well to think about whether there is any evidence for that.

I'd be worried - it could be a malicious accusation or it could be a serious problem.

I'd be wanting reassurance that this person wouldn't be alone with the DC from the school and the school will be ensuring that he does follow the child protection policy.

I'd also be telling my DC that they should not approach this person outside of school and they should not be alone with them in school ever. Possibly as part of a wider safety conversation.

It would be horrible for the individual if this is a false accusation however ensuring my DC are safe would be more important to me and I expect the school to be prepared to reassure me on that even if its just a reassurance their child protection procedures will always be followed.

Wasn't that school handy man who was dating that TA who killed those to primary school ages not convicted of anything - but was a source of concern in some accusations ?

It was thanks to that case that CBR check were introduced wasn't it?

What Iris said.
And yes, it would be detrimental to his career if he could no longer visit schools as it is a) part of his job and b) implies guilt, of which none has been proven.
If he has been disciplined or breaching child protection rules but not been charged with any crime, because there was no evidence, like iris said its most likely he was foolish enough to not follow the bit that says 'avoid being alone'.

Vicars are not infallible, they are not like teachers and can often let their desire to help and offer an listening ear overrule there head. I can well imagine a vicar being naive enough to allow themselves to be alone with a teen without for a second thinking that teen would make an allegation.

I speak as someone abused as a child by a teacher and who is engaged in the process of selection as a vicar