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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not want to help out with UCAS PS?

45 replies

Bread123 · 14/09/2013 01:46

To not want to help out with my friend's child's Oxbridge personal statement? I helped her older child as we are close friends, she and her husband did not go to uni, I'm a teacher (tho only recently qualified, as a mature student), I went to Cambridge, and they asked me. I helped him with structuring, explaining things more clearly, spelling, grammar and punctuation etc - but it was HIS PS. Now her younger son is also applying, with much less chance of success, but pushed by his school to do so. Meanwhile, my two boys, the exact same age as her two, are struggling academically despite early success (eg scholarship to v competitive private schools), and I have stopped teaching to try to support them and their much younger little brother better. I feel pretty conflicted about their struggles and am wondering how to help them better - so being asked to help out already high achieving children feels like a distraction. Also her older boy got into Oxbridge, flunked his first year and was asked to leave - so I wonder whether I helped someone win a place who shouldn't have been there in the first place!

OP posts:

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief · 14/09/2013 01:49

I think it's fine to explain that given your own challenges, you don't have time. If they're close friends then presumably they know your circumstances so I'm surprised they asked in the first place.

AgentZigzag · 14/09/2013 01:52

Aside from the judgement you've made on the older lad dropping out, are you saying you don't want to help them because they're considerably richer than yaaw?

If you haven't got the time to help out, then why not leave it at that?

Not sure why you'd go on to get into whether he's deserving of the place or your decision to stop work.

ilovesooty · 14/09/2013 01:57

Given that you have your own priorities at present that seems a perfectly understandable reason for saying you feel unable to help.

DameDeepRedBetty · 14/09/2013 02:01

The most important thing is do you have enough mental energy to spare to do this? Sounds like you don't, so don't.

Lots of my less academic friends see me (apparently) effortlessly write letters, reports, adverts etc and think I find it easy and will therefore do it for them. Well it isn't easy, it takes loads of time and thinking to come up with that apparently simple sentence. You know that as well as I do. Your own children have to come first - and yourself.

GertBySea · 14/09/2013 02:16

I can see where you are coming from, but also if you are close friends it would be a nice thing to do. Can you make sure he doesn't produce it until it's almost in a finished state so doesn't take much of your time.

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 14/09/2013 02:25

I think you need to think very carefully about exactly why you feel resistance towards doing this, because it is obviously an important issue to you and seems to be tied up very tightly with your aspirations for your children, and your own academic past.

I'm not saying that you should, or shouldn't, write the letter, but I do think you need to put your finger exactly you feel so conflicted. Yes, you could simply say that you are too busy, and obviously it gets you out of writing the letter, no questions asked - but it seems like this isn't a question of time, but something emotional.

You are a high achiever yourself, and mention your children's early success. I mean this in the nicest possible way, but are you jealous of the fact that your non-academic friends' kids are achieving more academically than your own kids?

You mention that this younger kid is 'high achieving' but you also say that he has much less chance of success. Does it seem to you like the time spent on the personal statement would simply be wasted time, because his chances aren't realistic? Is witholding that frank assessment making you feel awkward about finding another excuse for saying no?

Are his chances realistic? Are you holding his brother's outcome at Cambridge against him? That would be a shame. In any case, the personal statement is just one part, and a small part, of the application process. It helps tutors whittle down the number of candidates for interview, but they interviewed him and assessed his work and admitted him - not you. So you have nothing to feel bad about. Anyway, lots of people leave courses and change direction after their first year - the kid didn't do anything so terrible.

olidusUrsus · 14/09/2013 02:49

Personally I would refuse any request to help a friend's child with their UCAS application on the basis that I was an alumni of a good institution, or they asking you for your help for another reason?

You were right not to assist any further than basic structure and punctuation with their first child, but even that should have been his school's responsibility, not yours.

chocolateapple · 14/09/2013 02:59

I wouldn't judge the younger boy by his older brothers actions. However, I can see where you're coming from wrt to helping with the PS.
Surely it wouldn't be too time consuming if you ask him to write it first and then you'll give it a going over? Even if you just do it once, at least you've helped in some way!

and then feel free to help mine

And I wouldn't worry about you helping his older brother to get a place for him to drop out. Essentially, you helped with his grammar and I'm assuming he wrote the whole thing aka its his thoughts and why he wanted to do that course, etc. He didn't have your help in the interview process and you didn't sit his exams - academically, according to Oxford, he did the deserve the place. Perhaps he couldn't cope with the uni workload combined with the lifestyle? I don't know.

Anyway, it's your decision. I can definitely see why you're more inclined to put all your focus into your own sons, I'd probably have the same inclinations in your situation!

Cerisier · 14/09/2013 03:56

It is the school's responsibility to check over the UCAS PS. If the student wants advice to help get started there is plenty on Student Room. My DD is writing hers and I haven't been shown it, though I will probably read it through before it goes off. I am currently writing references for my students and am helping my students write their PS. Schools put a lot of effort into helping the students. Further input can be confusing for students and isn't advised at our place.

Just say you haven't got time, which is true.

I think it is very cheeky of the parents to ask you actually.

Jessicarthorse · 14/09/2013 04:06

Agree with Cerisier, think the parents have got a bloody cheek.

Help him with it, but do it really badly. [evil]

Alwaysneedtomowthelawn · 14/09/2013 05:13

Actually I think you should help him if you can.
I remember trying to write mine (17 years ago!) and it was horrific. Neither of my parents had been to university, or indeed anyone in my close family, and they were unable to help me at all.
I had no idea what to write, or what they would actually be looking for, and couldn't get much help from the teachers as they had 150 of us doing the same thing.

A family friend offering a helping hand would have been a godsend.

Whatdoiknowanyway · 14/09/2013 06:06

University applications were very different in my day but I got no help at all and floundered badly. As a result I have ended up helping at least one child a year and been happy to do it. It does take time and energy but it's a way of helping others so why wouldn't I?
But it's your call.

Roshbegosh · 14/09/2013 06:12

I would check it for structure and tell him if there are mistakes in the grammar or spelling but without correcting them. Make him do the work but have a quick read for him.

ditavonteesed · 14/09/2013 06:18

it depends very much on what exactly they are asking, I have asked people to help me with my ps, by help I mean read it and tell me if I am on the right track, if that is what they are asking then it is hardly hard work, if they are asking you to write it for him then that is not on.

LoopyLoopyLoopy · 14/09/2013 06:45

You sound very bitter.

They aren't asking for a kidney, just some help with a very short (but important) piece of writing. It's not hard. You have quit your job to focus on supporting your kids academically, they are at school, yet you don't have time to help on this tiny thing? I think you're just letting your bitterness get in the way.

Maybe your 'friend' will see this in time.

littlewhitebag · 14/09/2013 07:34

My DD wrote hers and the school checked it. I only read it at the end. He will get help from his school with it. If you don't want to help then don't.

stillenacht · 14/09/2013 07:46

Don't do it. As teachers we are always treated as 'mugs'. If you do go ahead, get paid for it.

LouiseAderyn · 14/09/2013 08:08

You don't sound like a very good friend to me. I think you sound bitter that your own dc are struggling and are therefore resentful about helping someone else's child achieve what yours may not!

I think the suggestion that you ask for money is outrageous - these people are supposed to be your friends. They are not asking for long term tuition, just for assistance doing something they would struggle to do properly themselves.

LouiseAderyn · 14/09/2013 08:12

I meant to add that on helping this boy, you are not taking anything away from your own dc - it's all become linked in your head and I don't think it should be.

You can help your friend without it sucking hours of your time - friendships mean investing a bit of effort to do things which are not personally important to you, but mean a lot to the other person.

Delayingtactic · 14/09/2013 08:27

Gosh asking for payment? They're friends asking for a favour, just saying no would be less offensive than asking for money.

Over the years I've looked at various people's ps and wish I had had more people look at mine. It's amazing how blinkered you can get re-reading the same thing over and over. Just read it, give some feedback and leave them to it - it takes what an hour maximum.

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 14/09/2013 08:34

No one reads these things anyway, as there's generally little that's "personal" about them. I've heard a number of people from different (some rather prestigious) institutions.

Roshbegosh · 14/09/2013 09:14

Not payment no, but surely the older brother said thank you and gave you chocs or something. No? oh dear. That's something else they need to learn then.

stillenacht · 14/09/2013 12:53

Would Lawyers/Doctors do half hour-2 hours work for free? I doubt it. Teachers already do so much voluntary work. How many blimmin passport applications have I done over the last year for free?! Lunchtime clubs, revision sessions for GCSE and A level, concerts and soirees. Not to mention option choice evenings, parents evenings, open evenings...

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 14/09/2013 13:02

A lot of my friends are lawyers and people are always bending their ears about their rights/disputes/legal problems. They are usually happy to (or just put up with) offer some casual, general advice.

I agree that teachers are over worked and underpaid, but I don't think that confusing a favour for a family friend with activities for pupils helps anyone.

LegoDragon · 14/09/2013 13:54

I am a teacher. This isn't work, this is helping a friend. I can see how you might be emotional about it (DD1/I am in the same position in a way, younger age however and she has SN) but really, it's 30mins max, to read through quickly and circle/note any punctuation/grammar/spelling mistakes, and a small comment. It's not unpaid work, it's a friendly favour. But if you feel too emotional to do it, then don't, it's down to you, ultimately.

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