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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not want to help out with UCAS PS?

45 replies

Bread123 · 14/09/2013 01:46

To not want to help out with my friend's child's Oxbridge personal statement? I helped her older child as we are close friends, she and her husband did not go to uni, I'm a teacher (tho only recently qualified, as a mature student), I went to Cambridge, and they asked me. I helped him with structuring, explaining things more clearly, spelling, grammar and punctuation etc - but it was HIS PS. Now her younger son is also applying, with much less chance of success, but pushed by his school to do so. Meanwhile, my two boys, the exact same age as her two, are struggling academically despite early success (eg scholarship to v competitive private schools), and I have stopped teaching to try to support them and their much younger little brother better. I feel pretty conflicted about their struggles and am wondering how to help them better - so being asked to help out already high achieving children feels like a distraction. Also her older boy got into Oxbridge, flunked his first year and was asked to leave - so I wonder whether I helped someone win a place who shouldn't have been there in the first place!

OP posts:

Jessicarthorse · 14/09/2013 14:08

Fuck that. This is meant to be a personal statement. Written by the applicant, not by some random family friend. He's a big boy, off to Uni. He should be able to do this for himself.

Roshbegosh · 14/09/2013 14:16

But jessica they all get so much help, they have become pretty meaningless. Even so, one written with a lot of errors would put you off the candidate. The boy needs help because everyone else has it. I have seen some from access students (no offence meant to access students as some have been outstanding) where the personal statement is written so obviously by their teachers that it is absurd, at the interview the candidate is a totally different person than what we have been led to expect. They can't string a sentence together and their statement could win a prize. It's mad but he should have help like everyone else or it isn't fair for him.

happilyconfused · 14/09/2013 14:17

It is his PS. His school will check it. He will be asked about it in interview, if pushed just check layout but leave all other suggestions. If you suggest a text or activity he may be asked about it at an Oxbridge interview. What happens when you suggest one thing and his school suggest something else?

Personally I think it would be unfair on kids who do not get the support.

Jessicarthorse · 14/09/2013 14:20

Anyone who hopes to enter HE should be capable of writing a coherent, accurate personal statement without help.

If he can't, then perhaps Uni isn't for him.

As Rosh says, they're all but meaningless these days anyway.

stillenacht · 14/09/2013 14:21

Happilyconfused and jessica I agree.

Lego if you have an extra half hour to do voluntary marking your school obviously doesnt have a marking policy like ours.

Stuff that!

YouTheCat · 14/09/2013 14:23

If he's applying to Oxbridge, surely he should be able to express himself in writing adequately?

LouiseAderyn · 14/09/2013 15:10

Stillenacht, option choice evenings and parents evenings etc are part of your job. They are not voluntary work, done out of the goodness of your heart. As for revision sessions - surely it is in your own interests, as well as those of your students, that they do well in their exams.

I don't get the resentment at signing passport forms either - all you are doing is reading it and confirming that you have known the person for at least two years. Why would a person mind using their profession to assist a friend, if what the friend is asking for isn't especially difficult for you or time consuming.

YouTheCat · 14/09/2013 15:15

In that case, the woman wanting her ds's application checked should get someone at her ds's school to do it.

LouiseAderyn · 14/09/2013 15:23

It will get checked by the school, but the mum probably thinks it would be nice to get the additional input from her friend.

I am a former teacher and I would do this if I could.

Fairyliz · 14/09/2013 16:16

Bread I can sort of see where you are coming from. Although I love my children they are not very academic and will probably end up in a manual jobs.

Meanwhile a close friend of mine has a daughter who somehow with average parents ended up with 4 A grade A levels and a chance to go to Oxford. I helped with her daughter PS but felt a bit resentful, shouldn't I have been putting all of my time into my children, because they need more help?
It has actually put a little bit of distance between us, I am jealous and she shows off!
Not much help was that!

webwiz · 14/09/2013 16:43

I think if I were you I would just say that you haven't got time to help him write the personal statement but that you'll give it a quick read through after he's done it to make sure its on the right lines. He should be able to access help at school if he doesn't know what to write (or he could have a look at his brother's to start him off). I think your mistake was being so helpful the first time round.

stillenacht · 14/09/2013 18:36

Louise yes all those things I listed secondly are directed time but on top of that are all those things listed first which are voluntary including lunch time clubs every day and two hour sessions after school every week, oh and tours, exchanges...in loco parentis 24 hours a day.

Running revision sessions does not benefit me... I already have GCSEs and A levels in those subjects. We get a trite thank you for your exam results (which are always excellent I should add). However after 18 years of teaching a bland thank you is not enough. If the kids did the work and learnt as they went along for interim tests instead of thinking "oh its only an interim test" I wouldn't need to give up days in my Feb holiday and Easter hol.

MammaTJ · 14/09/2013 18:53

The thing that struck me was that the first child needed help with spelling and grammar. If they need that much help, how will they cope at any university?

They can't even use 'word', which helps with both!

My tutor 'helped' with mine, but it wasn't any more than 'You have missed out this bit of experience' and 'you need to relate that more to the course you are applying for'. I sorted the spelling and grammar myself.

marriedinwhiteisback · 14/09/2013 18:54

My DS received an unconditional offer from Oxford on the basis of his interview. He's going to another uni next week - one which gave a stiffer offer. I didn't see his UCAS statement - it was between him and school.

If they want something enough they will deal with it. At nearly 18 they are young adults and need to make decisions and takes responsibility.

I don't think you should be checking for grammar - if that's an issue the boy or girl is clearly not cut out for Oxbridge. Not surprised the eldest dropped out if he got there through spoon feeding tbh.

IceBeing · 14/09/2013 19:02

I actually think a good personal statement is very hard to write and that a lot of the advice trotted out is rubbish. I spent some time this year helping students from disadvantaged backgrounds work out what sort of thing they needed to write....

Not that I think the OP should do this, especially if she doesn't want to, I am simply saying it isn't as easy as spelling things right!

stillenacht · 14/09/2013 19:09

Absolutely married

marfisa · 14/09/2013 21:44

I wouldn't worry about it too much one way or the other. If you don't have time, then that is a valid reason to say no, as others have said.

Personal statements aren't weighted very heavily in the Oxbridge admissions process, precisely because the admissions tutors have no way of knowing how much of it is the student's own work and how much help s/he has had with it. If a candidate's statement isn't as polished as it could be, that wouldn't be held against him or her (especially if the candidate doesn't come from a prestigious school where help would certainly be given with the statement). It's true that grammatical or spelling errors would look bad, but it's very unlikely that a candidate would not be summoned to interview just because of a weak personal statement.

Sorry to hear your DC are struggling academically. Are they still in the competitive private schools you mention, and if so, have you considered moving them to a less 'hot-housed' environment? Some children flourish more under less pressure. And as an added bonus, in these days of "flagged" applications, admissions tutors often pay particular attention to candidates from state schools that have not historically sent lots of students on to Oxbridge.

BrokenSunglasses · 14/09/2013 22:09

I think outré being really mean.

I understand that it might cut a bit if your own child of the same age is struggling, but a little bit of kindness is a good thing, and unless you are completely heartless then surely it will make you feel good to help someone too.

You are being quite nasty about her other son, who I'd have thought you'd be able to have more sympathy for considering your own children have floundered after early success too.

I haven't been to university, but it is a valid option for my children. I'm worried that my support won't be enough to help my children gain a place, and had hoped I'd be able to rely on my friends that have been to university. I'd be gutted if they felt the way you do. But they won't, because they're nice people.

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 14/09/2013 23:15

The thing that struck me was that the first child needed help with spelling and grammar. If they need that much help, how will they cope at any university?

I don't think you should be checking for grammar - if that's an issue the boy or girl is clearly not cut out for Oxbridge.

Totally disagree with this. The fact that a school kid may not have perfect spelling or grammar is absolutely no indication of their potential to do on to perform well at University. The rigours of a degree are well about style and formatting, which come with practise and experience.

Total nonsense.

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 14/09/2013 23:16

Pfft - to go on to perform well.

Well above style and formatting

(Case in point)

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