To think this man at the cinema was plain nasty?

[WombatCat]

Dh and I watched a film at the cinema on Saturday night.

There was a young man a few rows back from us with very vocal Tourette's. Obviously it was distracting to most people around him, but once the film started I didn't find it an issue. However, one man decided to tell him to shut up and "isn't there a special showing you could go to?"

Quite a few people appeared to be in agreement with him. I now wish I said something.

I would like again to apologise to those who have been distressed by this thread. I feel somewhat responsible as I posted it in the first place.

I suppose it depends if he had any idea that the guy could not control his tics.

My father (who is a complete arse) would not know what Tourette's was or a tic if it bit him on the end of the nose and would automatically think it was someone being stupid.

Well absolutely strokey I think most of us are aware that there are some people out there that don't wish to be educated or have their opinions changed, which is absolutely their right, as you've highlighted so beautifully.

Womba you haven't done anything wrong at all, if anything it's helped to raise the profile of the campaign a little

Genuine question (as in, wanting to learn here sort of question.) DS1 is disabled but you can 'tell' by looking at him so people stay away. Sad but true. :(

He doesn't tic etc so I want to ask, and I don't know how to be polite so I just will.

If I were sitting with someone with involuntary tics and they slapped/kicked/hugged me and my MH issues went off, does that make me disablist? I know that sounds like a stupid question but it's the only situation I can imagine being nervous around a disabled person. (Due to my own disabilities and fear of being touched.)

Also to ask a second question, if a blue moon happened and I was say kicked/hugged by someone with tics: What is the right response?

I want my sweet boy to be accepted, and I want others and their children to be accepted too. I just know I'd probably become very frightened in this scenario so am rambling and asking for a virtual 'head's up' for something that will most likely never happen.

The bloke was nasty but on the other hand I can see how it would be annoying after paying so much to see a film, couldn't he have moved further away from the man instead of having a go?

My dd has ASD and does have tic's, will screech, shout out random things and I have never taken her to the cinema (tbh she has never asked to go) but I would like to think she could go if she wanted to.

Good q specialagent, I think the key here is that everyone with Tourette's is so completely different!

Motor tics vary drastically, I can only give you personal experience of my DS.

He doesn't touch anyone, but when he is over-stimulated, excited or stressed (so watching a new, exciting film is actually a v good example), he will involuntarily fling his arms and legs out and jump to his feet, accompanied by snorts and grunts and head jerks.

He has the mental capacity of a 6yo and would apologise if he had accidentally hit someone whilst his tics were active, and I will briefly explain the situation and naturally check the person was ok.

Thankfully that particular situation hasn't arisen yet but I'm fully prepared for when it does.

I've also tried v hard to prepare my DS that inevitably some people will not understand, and will judge, point and stare, but I'd hope that the majority of people would understand.

I also pre-empt situations by pre warning people that my DS is likely to start to tic if he is stressed or emotionally aroused, the majority of people are curious but accepting, and so far I feel we've been very lucky in that respect.

stroke you are totally right when you say
it gets peoples backs up being called all sorts of names

No one likes to be called names.

The thing is though, the people on this thread who have been very vocal are parents of disabled children who are called names on a very regular basis because of their child's condition. Parents and their children who get looks and side comments about their dcs on a very regular basis.
So yes it does get their back up to read that people would want to get a refund because what they read (and I have to say that's what I read too) was:
that person who has some SN is annoying me and that's not OK. So I am asking a refund because I have been annoyed and I deserve to watch my film in the 'acceptable environment of a cinema' ie one where noise of people eating popcorn is acceptable but the grunts of a person with Tourette isn't.
If you take that point to the end, it also says that it would be on part with bad acoustic or 'antisocial behaviour' such as a group of people making lost of noise and being a nuisance. But is it? Is it comparable?

In both cases though, the cinema would then take measures to avoid that as it would have some influence on their reputation + how much money they make. It would be seen as the cinema responsibility.
But what is the cinema suppose to do? Refuse entrance to someone with SN because of the disturbance, not because of the SN of course not. But because they are disturbing other viewers.
Would that be the right thing to do?

Imho, the cinema IS a public place. You are bound to meet people from different walks of life. You are bound to meet people who will behave in a way that annoys you. And not just people with SN.
So I tend to think that the best way to deal with it is to change my behaviour, my expectations and work on my compassion and patience because I will meet people (or their behaviours) who I find annoying all the time. Works so much better that way :)

Having said all that, it doesn't excuse name calling from any 'camp'.
But it does explain why some people have such a short trigger.
And why they DO need to be venting from all the hardships they have.

SpecialAgent
No it wouldn't be disabilist because you couldn't control your fear of being touched anymore than the person could control his tics.

That's an issue of meeting the needs of 2 people with some particular needs. That's all.

I like AllThat approach. By letting people know, if someone has some genuine issues such as yours, they can take action before it goes out of hand.

Well, it works both ways doesn't it?

I want my DS to be treated well and likewise for others, if he accidentally hurt someone (it'd have to be in a confined space but it could happen) and I hadn't warned them that he may tic or jerk, which is with rapid, uncontrolled movements so can be painful if he caught you!

Then that would make me responsible and would really distress my DS as well as the other person, and I'd feel terrible.

I will never, ever, apologise for my child's disabilities, but I will always make sure he and others around him are in as safe an environment as possible.

As I said, I haven't encountered this scenario and hopefully won't, we're extremely lucky that he goes to a small, wonderful school where everyone knows him and treats him completely normally, and he has a fantastic support network.

The wider world is a huge worry we have yet to attempt to conquer, we'll hit that hurdle as he gets older I guess and hope we've prepared him enough

I have not read all of this thread (410!!!) but would like to add that there are screenings that accomodate special needs such as Autistic screenings where it is more acceptable to make such noise and also HOH (Hard of Hearing) screenings which are normal screenings but have subtitles, so majority of audience are hearing impaired and therefore would not be "bothered" by his uncontrollable outbursts. The cinema should be inclusive of everyone and a certain level of tolerance MUST be shown towards people you are unintentionally distracting you from the screen due to uncontrollable disabilities, although i understand that with the inflated ticket prices nowadays it is annoying to have your "treat day" interupted.

TooMuch2Young

where are you based? Im producing a concert soon and you'd be more than welcome. It's going to be noisy with audience participation so you wouldn't need to worry for a minute you were spoiling if for anyone

(I hope you don't think I'm being patronising - just I love theatre and want everyone to be able to see it)

2ndry

With respect..the special autism showings are not to segregate people with autism to somewhere its more acceptable to make noise but have lower sound and dim lighting etc.

It is not acceptable to suggest the man with Tourettes goes to a hearing impaired showing so people can't hear his noise.

Seriously can't believe you suggested that.

Oh lord..

So is that where I've been going wrong? I should be taking DS to hearing impaired screenings now?

Honestly, I'm just having to laugh at the absurdity

HOH screenings are absolutely no different to standard screenings, but the people attending them are often more tolerant towards people with disabilities and also they tend to be less busy. I personally love attending these as i like the subtitles - Did not mean to sound patronising at all

I appreciate your polite reply party

Telling people they are cruel/twats/disablist if they choose to leave a film that they aren't enjoying is making things WORSE for disabled people.

Its fine to want inclusion, but that cant extend to expecting someone to remain seated throughout the film in order not to upset any disabled person.

That's more than most people are willing to do in my opinion, and by asking (especially in the rude way some are) is going to make people lose patience.

SpecialAgent
I have uncontrollable motor tics.
I'm 30+ and have developed many ways to avoid my tics being forced on others, I don't use public transport etc.
If I go somewhere like a cinema I would try my best to sit at the end of a row with my pal beside me so it doesn't affect anyone else but if that wasn't possible, the cinema is packed and I'm shoehorned in beside some NT's I try and make light of it by saying to the person next to me that I have tics and they may get an unexpected cuddle.
If I were ticking all over and it wasn't settling I would leave.
I also sit in a way that should minimise any risk of a jerky contact.
If it happens despite that I would feel mortified and apologise so, personally speaking, a smile and a laugh from you would be enough to sooth my embarassment and if it were to trigger your MH issues then I would understand.
You likely have your own arsenal of apologies and explainations if you have a bad reaction from physical contact, I would be able to empathise.

Course these youngsters who are learning their specialities won't have as many avoidance techniques yet so more patience and tolerance would be the biggest help.
I could have used some when I was a little 'un

You can excuse it any way you like.

But imo if someone's disability annoys you so much you have to leave, then you are disabilist.

May i also add that my previous comments were more aimed at people who avoid the cinema as THEY do not want to be in a situation where they are embarassed by doing something to annoy other cinema goers or avoid cinema going as they worry about how their actions will be percieved and tolerated by others. I was simply stating that certain screenings are in place at most theatres to cater for people with disabilities and that by attending these screenings they could relax and enjoy a movie in the theatre in a more tolerant enviroment without having to deal with people like the arse-hole mentioned by the OP. I am NOT saying they should be excluded from standard screenings but merely stating that there are options to view movies, should they so wish, in a more tolerant enviroment.

I understand what you're saying 2ndry but we could continue in a vicious circle like that forever unless we work to change attitudes.

If someone with disabilities wants to attend the specialist screenings, that's great, if they don't, they shouldn't have to, and shouldn't have to worry about idiots being intolerant either.

That's what needs to change.

usual Very true...

The thing is most disabilites would not affect the enjoyment of other cinema goers, somebody making persistant loud noises, whether they are deliberate or not, would ruin the enjoyment for other cinema goers. Even if you realised they were involentary and were tolerant, as i predict a good majority of people are, you would still be distracted and your enjoyment of the movie altered. Fact. If I paid £16 to go and see a movie and was distracted the whole time by someone making lots of noise, be it by distrepectful cinema goers or a disabled person I would not enjoy the movie to the same extent. I would be tolerant of the latter of course, but it would still distract and annoy me.

What Im saying is I don't have to apologise for leaving. Or excuse it. Doesn't make me disablist, as it has nothing to do with the disabled person. It could be any audio disturbances

You are saying that I should not leave the cinema even though I might want to, incase it offends a disabled person. Thats asking too much Im afraid.

I think you should leave ,yes,one less intolerant person in the cinema is a good thing.

le sigh

Would you sit there and not move if a baby was screaming their head of in the seat next to you for the whole movie? Wonder how tolerant you would all be then.....Would you be "ageist" to move or not want to sit there? Their noise is also involuntary.....