Concerning DH's contribution to general running of the house?

[Puffykins]

Seriously, I need some perspective on this:

DH quit his job in June, which I was delighted about, as both hours and pay were terrible and he didn't actually even enjoy it anymore so when he was at home he was in a truly awful mood due to being very depressed and was not remotely fun to live with. He'd stopped doing any sort of housework, or really interacting with the children much as he was so tired etc., and I was working hard myself trying to earn the extra that we needed while also doing all the childcare and the cleaning.

So, three months on, DH still hasn't decided on a plan of action (he did say that he needed some time to think about it) and while my life has in many ways become a lot easier as I have more time to work (I'm freelance, but what I earn does cover our costs, though it's not exactly fancy costs, iyswim.)

DCs are 3 and 1. 3 year old is admittedly exhausting, but has just started nursery every morning. I drop him off, and then continue with DD to whatever it is that we're going to be doing activity-wise (and I want to be doing this, and have deliberately organised work so that I can, to the extent that I often work late at night once the DCs are asleep), and return home with both children about 12 30 and hand them over to DH so that I can start work. So he has every morning free. They then both sleep for two hours, 1 - 3. Then I'm nearly always home/ available to help with bath time and bedtime, and, three afternoons a week, I take DS from 3.30 for his music lessons/ swimming lessons, and occasionally I'll take both children to playdates (when I can fit it in with work.) (DH has told me that if were responsible for getting DS to all these things, DS wouldn't to because DH doesn't think they're necessary. I do. We differ. And DS LOVES his classes.) One day a week DH doesn't have to do anything at all because we have a nanny that day who I've kept on because I'm kind of hoping that DH will get a job again one day and we'll need her, and she's brilliant and the children love her and I don't want to lose her. So, basically, DH only has to look after the children in the afternoons, four days a week, and very occasional mornings when I HAVE to work but then he only has DD who is easy peasy and a total dream to look after.

And yet I'm still doing most of the housework, too. Definitely all the laundry. I often get home and have to do all the washing up FOR THE WHOLE DAY, and pick up all the toys, etc. (probably about 50% of the time) He occasionally hoovers without being told to. He occasionally cleans the kitchen, but he'll do something like leave all the gross stuff in the plug so that I have to deal with it. He'll empty the bins if and when I remind him. He has yet ever to clean the bathroom. Every so often we have an argument, I cry, and he gets better at cleaning up after himself for about two weeks, and then it reverts. I'll happily get a cleaner, but not until he's got a job (and he hasn't actually applied for a single one, yet), as until then I'm just going to feel like I'm paying for everything so that he can just swan around half the day?

But if this was reversed, if he was a SAHM, would his modus operandum be able to be justified? I've never been a SAHM, I was a working from home mother every minute the children were sleeping in order to pay the mortgage every month, so I have to admit that I myself wasn't brilliant at doing the cleaning - also, I had both children all the time (well, once DD had been born, that is.) But still I made sure that the bathroom etc. was cleaned at least once a week.

I get that he's 'having a break', and figuring out life a bit so 'needs time to think', but equally I can't help comparing how much I achieved with how little he achieves . . . . Although he is really good with the children when he concentrates on them, and has been much more patient potty training DS than I would have managed to have been.

Sorry, this has turned into more of a rant than anything, and has got a bit long. I'm just feeling a bit murderous. Also, I think I'm feeling kind of jealous of all his spare time. I really want him to get a job. Not least because when he's at home he grazes all day, mainly on cereal, so there never seems to be any for breakfast.

So what does he actually do all day? Is he looking for jobs?

So what does he do all day?

He sounds like a lazy teenager that needs some privileges removed.

No, he's not looking for jobs. He goes for walks. He does his 'exercise routine' of press-ups and sit-ups. He does a lot of drawing. He's got to level 125 on Candy Crush Saga. I don't really know what else he does.

Oh, he does do all the cooking, though he doesn't have to do any shopping as I order it all online. He only really cooks pasta, though.

Wow- level 125 on candy crush- he's a keeper- not! I do hope you know this by accident rather than him telling you.

He should be doing the bulk of the childcare and housework, surely.

If he wasn't brought up doing chores then they are possibly not on his radar and besides if someone else will do them... Not great but if you just remind him to do stuff will he do it? I can see that always having to say 'dishes need doing' 'can you clean the windows' etc is a bit of a PITA but if it gets it done then that's better than the current situation. And maybe, eventually he'll get in the habit. Hoovering for some reason is on his radar so that does get done, if not as often as you'd like.

Well if he's a stay at home Dad he should be doing most of the housework around taking care of the kids.

If he's job hunting he should prioritise that, while taking on a good chunk of housework and childcare while he isn't working.

Which is it?

Give him a list of jobs every day to be done in the morning. Eg laundry and cleaning type jobs but be specific. Some days tell him you have to work when normally you would be taking DS to his classes and ask him to do it. Keep giving lists, keep asking him to do things. I could ask my DH to do the same job every day for a hundred years and he would still wouldn't think to do it if I didn't ask. So, much as it annoys me, I just keep asking.

Well, the thing is, he apparently can't actually apply for any jobs until he's figured out what he wants to do, he says . . . . He trained as an artist, and had been working in a vaguely related field, so his drawing, while not being anything that we can make money from, is not 'not work' - does that make sense? - I'm quite happy for him to be doing that. I'd just like him to fit it some other stuff, too . . .
Waffly, I think you're right. I think a lot of it just isn't on his radar. He definitely didn't grow up having to do anything at all.

The main thing though is that I'm not being unreasonable in demanding a little more from him. Which is good.

So he deals with both children from 12:30 - 1pm then 3 - 3:30pm then one child from 3:30pm until 6pm when you help out with bath / bedtime three days, one day not at all and one day 12:30pm - 1pm then 3pm - 6pm?

He's not a SAHD. He's a cocklodger!

I think you should enter a yet to be launched reality show called "husband swap". In the meantime he needs a kick up the bum. While he's making up his moind how abput some leading up to Xmas shifts in the local shopping centre.

He's a lazy sod. YANBU.

It has only been three months though. How long should I give him? Marriedinwhite I do like your idea, but we're in central London, so the childcare would cost more than he would earn.... And while technically he could get a job working evenings in a bar/ restaurant, he's a recovering alcoholic and expecting him to work serving alcohol is unfair (IMO). He is talking about getting a job, but he's waiting for something he really wants to do so he doesn't re descend into depression. I think I just need to write lists for him. I hate doing it though - I expect (and receive) more from people who work for me, and he's not my assistant (as he occasionally reminds me. At which point I tell him I would have fired him by now. Etc. etc. That conversation tends not to go well.)

Well the response to that is, no you're supposed to be my partner. But I suspect that's just a pointless row.

Make up a calendar with your stuff on there, like block out your work times, block out the bits where you are taking kids places etc. then block out when he has the kids, then make a list of other things that need to be fitted round those. At that point bring him over to fill in the rest with you. Work it out together. It doesn't have to be rigid, hoovering at 10am wednesdays. You can leave it clear then remind him when stuff needs doing. The important thing is for him to see what the burden is and that it needs to be shared.

Can you sit down with him when you're both calm and have some time, and talk about what needs to be done around the house, and agree that for example the bathroom needs cleaning once a week, so does the kitchen, hoovering etc. And then talk about your various timetables, and offer to do some of the housework and ask him to pick up some of the housework, relative to your time? And explain that when he's working again you can revisit it so that it's fair?

Getting cross and arguing is understandable, but can make people dig their heels in, so doing it fairly and rationally without blame will hopefully make him realise that he has a responsibility to be more active.

In my experience people need structure in order to get anything done, so if he's just wafting around he'll never get around to solving his work problem. Also, get him volunteering once or twice a week - working with disadvantaged people might help him recover a little perspective.

Your situation is utterly ridiculous.

I would argue that if he doesn't get off his backside, that would send him to depression.

I'm a Sahm and I do everything from childcare to cleaning to organising our lives. it's only fair.

He needs a massive kick up the star. Fine to wait for a job you want. But at least look and do all childcare and cleaning whilst you do so.

If he genuinely isn't seeing what needs done then I think you have to draw up a list of everything that has to happen every day/week. Then you say 'I realise a lot of this hasnt been on your radar but that has to change. These jobs need to be split 70/30 (or whatever) so what do you want to do?' You could also frame it that you could be working more and therefore earning more, if he picked up more chores.

I think - call me cynical - that a few weeks round the business end of the toilet brush may also concentrate the mind on the job search.

Can you face keeping this man as a kind of exotic pet? Is he a phenomenal shag or something? Or is it just that you have been conditioned to believe that any man is better than life without a man?

He is lazy, selfish and self-obsessed, and he thinks that he's entitled to sit around on his arse all day while you do all the income-generating work and all the domestic work, because, well, he has a penis therefore you should be glad of the opportunity to indulge and serve him. It's not going to get any better. Asking him to do any jobs will soon begin to 'stress him out', and he might well protect his indulged status by threatening to drink again, as well.

You'd be best off kicking him out, really.

I did go to LA for a week (for work) shortly after he'd quit his job. I may need to do something similar again. (I really really missed the children though. And him.) (And his method of dealing was for everybody to wear the same clothes all the time I was away, so no laundry, and they ate of paper plates using plastic forks, so no washing up.)
I think he's not keen on housework. I think I need to really REALLY encourage him to get a job. I actually don't mind housework, you see. I find it sort of satisfying.

I feel I've unfairly painted him as being incredibly idle and faintly pointless. He's also very funny, most of the time my best friend, and the children and I adore him.
Housework, however, is not his strong point.
To be honest, if he stopped eating ALL the cereal every day I'd be a lot more forgiving.
He needs to get a job though. Then we can get a cleaner and I'll stop feeling resentful.

Because yes, SolidGold, right now he is a kind of exotic pet. Albeit one who does some fairly crucial child care that I couldn't do for a little bit of each day. The thing is, if I were to get an exotic pet, I'd choose one that didn't raid the larder every day.

Puffykins - you deserve a gold medal. When I was a SAHM I did the housework and the shopping and the cooking and the organising and I hate housework. But I put my nose down for DH and the DC and for us. That's wwhat your DH needs to do if he's not working. If he doesn't like the cleaning he needs to get a mundane saturday, evening job to pay for it.

"Albeit one who does some fairly crucial child care that I couldn't do for a little bit of each day"

You make it sound like he's doing you a favour. But aren't they his kids too?

He needs to have the self-respect to contribute to the family - whether by being a decent SAHD, or through paid employment. Does he know other men who live like this?

Yes, sameold, he does. We have a lot of friends of the trustafarian variety . . . . i.e. a lot of our friends don't actually have proper jobs, or any job at all. He has a small income that just about covers what he wants (he doesn't have expensive tastes) without his having to work, but it doesn't cover anything for the rest of us. It's not the point though. I really need him to get a job. Else maybe I'll suggest that he pays for a cleaner out of his income, that hadn't occurred to me until now as I'd actually forgotten that he isn't entirely penniless . . . . I still want him to get a job though.

Wait, wait. His money is his but your money is both of yours?