To agree with the Headmistress to send home pupils who do not conform to regulation school uniform.

[annemary12]

I am totally fed up with school pupils who look a mess and are not dressed in correct or regulation school uniform. I never understand why many schools allow 6th form pupils free will in their choice of clothes.

I think that if pupils are unable to abide by school uniform regulations what hope of they got when they leave school and are going to interviews.

I believe that all school pupils including 6th form pupils should wear a regulation school blazer and school tie so they can show which school they go to.

Headmistress like Leslie ellis are standing up for standards that have been in decline since the 1970"s and need to be fully supported in their desire to hold standards to at least the very shoddy standards that pupils display today. I for one am delighted that a head was prepared to take ridicule and derision in standing up for standards.

After reading the constant criticism of leslie ellis i thought it was time that someone stood up for a upstanding member of the teaching profession.

I preferred a uniform as a child, and had a very healthy respect for my school so took a lot of pride in wearing it. We were very poor and sadly school uniform was the nicest thing I owned. If we hadn't had one I dread to think of the bullying potential had I turned up in the ill fitting hand me downs I had to wear at home.
There are good reasons to have a uniform, not necessarily because they impact on education, but because they remove a lot of the social and cultural differences between children. Everyone has a sense of identity and belonging that has nothing to do with how much your parents earn.

YABU

Parents who live here cannot send their over 11s to a non-uniform school, there are none within a 20 mile radius. I'm glad that both my DCs were able to attend the only local non uniform school before the parents and governors forced through uniform against the will of the head teacher.

They both managed to get 5 A levels and very good degrees despite never being told what to wear. Their father and I got lesser degrees, despite having every garment dictated up to the age of 18. We both spent an unreasonable amount of time trying to subvert the dictats which I see still happens today.

Uniform can make students look very scruffy - if it still fits then they wear it, even if it's falling apart, because replacements are so expensive.

As a teacher I always encouraged individuality, compulsory uniform saps that.

It is true that it gives them something minor to rebel against
Our school had to change blazer supplier as the last one went bust and we've just changed the tie too. However, it's phased in - only needs to be changed when the student requires a new one.
Our Parents' association organises a very good second hand uniform shops.
Sixth formers have a dress code and any contraventions are warned first - they wouldn't be sent home; just asked to wear something more appropriate from the costume store! It's never had to be opened for that.

Where I live, there are no school uniforms for kids.

Personally, I love it. Its great to see kids able to express themselves instead of being forced into looking exactly alike.

Our schools get good results, and don't seem to struggle to wear appropriate clothing for the world of work.... Just because they don't wesr a uniform doesn't make them incapable of dressing smartly when they need to.

Oh, and yes, I'm in the UK.

Wouldn't it be better not to feel you have to rebel against wearing nasty uniforms and the petty power plays that come with them? I don't think it is a wise saying at all, in fact I think it is a very stupid saying. As parents we are often told to pick our battles, and yet schools are commended for creating them?

I live in a town where none of the local schools have uniforms. My colleagues who mostly attended the schools have no more of a problem dressing for work than me, despite the years I spent stuffed into badly fitting polyester, when they were wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

Op, I'd like to ask you (and anyone else that cares to answer it), a genuine question.

What is more important - the education or the uniform?

If you agree that education is more important, then YABU. If you think that the uniform is more important, then YANBU.

Our local school has rules regarding dress. If they are broken, the pupil is warned not to wear it or similar again. Only if they do are they given some form of punishment. They are not sent home. It has a wide catchment area, poor bus links and there is no guarantee that there would be anyone at home anyway.

Which leads to another question. What do you propose the pupil does if they have no way of getting home and / or changing? Is it ok for them to hang around the streets all day?

And of course, this was a supply issue not a refusal to wear the issue so definitely shouldn't have meant punishment.

Way to create a false dichotomy.

You can care about the education, and at the same time care about other things i.e. uniform. Not mutually exclusive.

Keeping an orderly school environment fosters an environment of learning. You could also say, why insist on keeping a school tidy? How does forcing a child to tidy up after themselves have any bearing on their education?

What would one of these nylon-blazer-and-logo-nazis do if a bunch if normal parents simply said no, enough, the kids are coming into school wearing clean jeans and t-shirts and you can stuff your uniform? If they refused to buy these poorly made bits of polyester crap sewn by young children in other countries in sweat shops?

I spend about £250-£400 a year on this bollocks which means my kids have to have fewer 'real' clothes and I bitterly resent having to fork out. And I don't want my kids looking like minor clerks and being trained for some sort of typing pool clone past that doesn't exist any more.

I hate uniforms. It represents all that is self-serving and wrong about parts of the British education system.

And I think if a head sent my child home for uniform infractions when they were clearly not of our making, I would be pulling my child out the school straight away as I would assume the head was incompetent.

What's uniform got to do with an orderly school environment? Or learning? Universities seem to manage to be about learning with no clothing related rules. Work places seem fairly orderly whether they have uniforms or not.

My children have been at uniformed schools and non uniformed schools (both at primary) apart from the heterogeneity of clothing there really wasn't very much difference at all.

If you feel so strongly about uniform why not campaign against it.
My students used to do some persuasive writing work on school uniform. They read well written opinions on both sides of the argument before doing their own work. We have a very distinctive uniform I was surprised to discover the majority were in favour of uniform.
Uniform used to be a great 'leveller' but it does seem to have got too expensive to fulfil that aim now.
There are pros and cons on both sides of the debate and on balance I'm in favour of uniform codes - as long as common sense comes into it. Which in this case, it didn't.

Op, come back and answer your questions!

Crowler, my questions were specifically in relation to the specific instance where education has been withdrawn due to the schools failure to ensure people could get them.

I didn't make that clear, however.

Having said that, I still think education is more important ) schools can perform well with no uniform.

Apologies, it's Lesley Ellis, the name is correctly spelled. I stand by my earlier comments about priorities.

I like uniform and have no issues with it. However, I have significant issues about how it is prioritised in schools when there are far more serious issues that go unaddressed and which dilute the learning and enjoyment of the majority. I'm thinking about things which are criminal acts such as: assault, pyromania and drug taking; a little further down drinking and smoking; disruption, bullying insolence. All of which require far more serious sanctions than a uniform infraction. At the end of the day who does it harm if a child has a short skirt or pink hair or indeed if she arrives with a pretty necklace or a pair or earrings smaller than those worn by the admin office and through whom a chihuaha could be trained to jump.

When schools sort out their priorities and sort out who the trouble makers really are then I shall respect the teaching profession a little more. They never quite go for the little so and so the children are afraid of and who causes real trouble do they. Ultimately it's a matter of principle and ought to be led by a sensible principal.

IMO in any school where there is theft, assault, bullying, disruption, all those issues need to be dealt with first - the difficult issues, the one's which actually affect engagement with education, the ones that matter - the uniform and the sort of measures imposed by Lesley Ellis come a long long way down the pecking order. I trust Lesley Ellis can stand up and say, hand on heart, that none of those things exist in her school and no teacher has ever delivered a less judged to be less than good by Ofsted. If Lesley Ellis cannot do that then I suggest she reflects long and hard, along with any head in a similar situation, before she takes quite such draconian action over school uniform.

On the matter of safeguarding, I trust every parent was informed their child was being sent home and that the school made sure an adult was present to look after the child when they arrived home and that the child could gain access to their home. One also hopes that the school ensured the children had enough bus far for the extra journey entailed by this punitive and ludicrous exercise. If one child came to any harm as a result of this head's action that would have been a far greater tragedy than turning up for school with a logo that looks less than one centimetre square. On the matter of safeguarding alone I think Lesley Ellis many need to be hauled over by the LEA and that an investigation to ensure proper safeguarding procedures were in place in relation to this if nothing else.

Home school if you don't want to conform

Noooooooooo ! Please don't !!

Home ed has a big enough PR problem as it is without adding vast swathes of people who pick mainly for its "non conformist" status.

Probably a better idea to choose HE becuase out of all the ed. options available to you it is either the best, or the least awful..... but not becuase it allows the adults to shine the "I'm so cool me" lables they have stuck on themselves.

DS1 is only 6 and loves his school so wears the uniform with great pride. Enforcement is pretty pants but it's a deprived area so the school are quite hands off about it. Seems about right to me and attainment levels are fine even though some of the pupils are a bit scruffy, because they are secure and cared for and well taught.

Lesley Ellis apparently thinks you can do without all that as long as you have logos. Which makes her someone I wouldn't want in charge of my child's education.

I can't bear uniforms. Would you all like your workplace to introduce a uniform regardless of if it is necessary, I think the amount of time spent arguing with kids about wearing the right uniform is absolutely pointless.

Has the OP given an opinion on the children who went to school in the 'wrong' uniform because of the mess the school made with the supply? Or have they conveniently missed that bit out?
Our HT is quite good on this, he's a bit of a uniform traditionalist, no blazers off without permission etc but if anyone can't get hold of logo'd stuff for any reason at all he keeps a small stock in to lend to the student until their parent can pick it up. All he asks ids that it comes back clean within 2 weeks. Last year apparently he had a stock of black socks in to counteract the fashion for luminous odd socks...

I think the amount of time spent arguing with kids about wearing the right uniform is absolutely pointless.

This is so true. As a teacher I have far better things to do with my time than check what children are wearing.

Does DH do less work on dress down Fridays, than on Monday to Thursday in a shirt and tie. Does he do less work on his working from home days, wearing a T shirt and shorts?

Is HW done in your PJs less correct than HW done in a nice summer dress.

It's a load of bollocks!

My DD attends a SN school and her uniform is Black with a White shirt.

There are some stupid rules about shoes, though, kicker boots are fine, but no Doc Martins, which would be the most practical and would last for years ( these fit in with her Goth style).

She is travelling a long way to school to build up independence and knowledge of planning and using pulic transport ( she may never pass a driving test).
It doesn't help that the school doesn't have lockers, for winter boots to be stored in, unlike many workplaces.

As said adult women don't wear ties, except for some Airlines, make up is allowed in work, insisted upon in some roles.

School uniform is fine, as long there is common sense.

Good point - my most productive day of the week is the one spent working at home, on the sofa, in the scruffiest clothes I own. I feel better at work when I'm smart, but it doesn't make my work better.

Uniform is a cheap trick used by weak Heads. 'Look how I have made everyone dress smartly' preens the Head.

The uniform is used to punish students for trivial reasons. It is also used to 'make an example of' any student the Head feels may need to be taken down a peg or two.

My DCs school has warned that it will be cracking down on uniform. This is a school which is in and out of special measures and last year managed to plummet to the very foot of the league tables for reasons of managerial incompetence. Yet the Head presumes to tell me how to dress my children. I feel that the Head could be spending his time more wisely than issuing sartorial instructions.

In my opinion Lesley Ellis should be spending her time on managing her school not worrying about what clothes the students are wearing.