to think that there isn't anything wrong with being a Sugar Baby?

[IAmMiranda]

Been reading a lot on the "sugar world" since a friend (let's call her Sugar) told me she was considering becoming a "Sugar Baby".

A lot of people compare it to prostitution but to me it seems more like a relationship without the commitment. (The normal "arrangements" anyway).

Sugar is afraid that people will get the wrong idea and think that she is a slag but she prefers older men and wants to be looked after.

Of course she will need to be sensible and be safe and whilst it isn't a lifestyle choice I would make I respect her and will be there for her if she needs me.

But I'm curious about what other people think of the Sugar Daddy/Sugar Baby thing? Does anyone know any?

Best sources of reference I have found has been Arrangement site

Blog of a Sugar Baby - I admit that it took a bit of searching to find a blog written by someone who came across as thoughtful and intelligent, there were a lot there that some may label as "Chavs"

this idea makes me feel so sad that some women feel they are no better that play things that will get tossed aside at some point, other than that it's quite gross.

Although I personally much prefer a life partner over this but if both parties are happy it's fine IMO. Not everyone wants all that comes with a committed relationship and some people want to be spoils with gifts, money , dates etc , it is a form of prostitution really but if it's two consenting adults I don't see the problem, many relationships where someone is kept are like this, if they are not married they don't have many more legal rights than your friend would and if she's happy with a casual relationship and gifts etc good luck to her.

Pipsqueak it's only sad if the woman would secretly love a committed relationship, not all women do. Some are immensely happy in no strings attached relationships with an emphasis on fun, being spoilt etc particularly if they are at a place when they want to concentrate on themselves and career etc without settling down it doesn't mean they won't choose to in the future. I love being in a relationship but It's ok not to want a committed relationship many are very unhappy. She may not be sad she may be having the time of her life. Not all women want a traditional relationship.

If someone was truly happy in the 'relationship' in which she said she felt literally nothing and saw it as a job/way to support her family then why would she have bothered trying to establish a relationship with someone else for free?

Do you not consider taking advantage of someone's poverty in order to bribe them to pretend to be your girlfriend, act as your human flashlight and run errands for you like a skivvy, all for a grand a month as exploitation?

I do.

#fleshlight.

Sorry, autocorrect.

She is a prostitute. Simple as that.

The more I think about this the more I wonder if she is wanting you to fill the void from the other guy?
Surely see could earn her living in a more conventional fashion if she wants out of her agreement with the other man.

Depressing. I know a couple in this set up. He financially, sexually and verbalises her. Daily.

The word she used was that I was 'a release' from it.

It's a dilemma though, if I'm a release in the sense that I'm temporary relief and allowing her to perpetuate her situation then then I'm like an Elastoplast on a bullet wound; I'm part of the problem. I sincerely want to be part of a permanent release from the situation she's arrived at.

The trouble is that I don't know what she sees me as. Hopefully the latter.

notadad - spot on about the exploitation.

I think a lot of people - not just 'sugar babies' but many women with self-esteem issues seek out relationships where they are never going to be treated equally. I have two friends who had affairs, and both were in a state where, at some level, they didn't really believe they were worthy of a full relationship. The trouble is, it's the dumbest way for them to try to feel better, because it almost always ends in tears, leaving the person in a worse state than before. (Not to mention the poor, poor wife. It can be a process for people to learn that they are loveable, and it can require a bit of patience. I really hope your gf is willing to go through that process, with you there to support her. You sound like a great partner.

How can some people be willing to do this? Where is their self-respect? Are naice things and money really worth selling your body for?

I think some who get into prostitution by "choice" are already severely damaged - childhood sexual abuse and the like, resulting in them not having healthy boundaries and thinking it normal to close their eyes and think of the money.

There's those who are so traumatized they do not feel any connection between their mind and their body and can just shut off any feeling while their body is being fucked.

For them, perhaps it is worth it, because the trauma prevents them from getting a job.

But if you are not already heavily traumatized, the harm done by this probably outweighs any financial benefit.

Of someone I'd being bought, they are by dentition a commodity. This is very dehumanising, and created a power balance which hugely favours the buyer.

Your friend would be vulnerable in this situation.

She's said that she's going to try to get out of it herself, that it's not my role to help her. Personally, now I know about this guy's wealth and sociopathic tendencies, I'm quite worried about how he'll react if/when she tells him she wants out.

I think you are very right to be worried about that. If she herself thinks he is a sociopath, (and she's the one who stays with him) then, chances are, he is one, and getting out of this is best done by moving to another part of the country and if possible taking on a different name.

1000 a month is very shitty pay for prostitution. Does she have a job, or is that her whole income? If the latter, can you help her find a job? I can see why she wouldn't want to take money from you, but she needs to realize that her life is at stake and accepting some help in getting herself to safety is necessary.

Perhaps you can get her to swallow her pride by pointing out that this is a very unsafe situation for her children, too.

It is her only source of income. Thank you all for your kind responses, I'm hoping to see her again soon and talk to her. I've been looking for other employment ideas for her and sending her the links. I don't think it'd be straight forward for her to move away, I'm hoping to talk to her about an exit strategy from her 'arrangement' that'll make him think it was his idea as opposed to her telling him she wants out.

If nothing else, I hope that this thread can serve as a warning to any other young mother who might've, due to poverty, been considering entering a SD/SB deal.

It really isn't worth it.

Notadad, if u don't mind me saying, she is selling herself quite cheap! 1k a month? How many hrs 'work' is that if u count in dinner time and after dinner oblig 'sex'?

How is that enough for her to support her family? U mention it's her only source of income so I'm quite puzzled.

You know I never considered someone who has a sugar daddy to be called a sugar baby, makes it seem even more weird to me

Alpies, I think she also gets some money in benefits, she can't find legitimate work very easily because her youngest child is only four and childcare costs make the prospect of paid employment unfeasible. She gets a sum total of £100 a month as child support from her ex to care for her children. She's definitely being underpaid by the old reptile.

I don't know precisely how much time she spends with him because I've asked her not to talk about it to me or to tell me when it's happening - When she does it makes me feel queasy because I find the whole arrangement deeply distasteful - The thought of his hands on her makes me boil up with disgust toward him and pity for her - To reach a point where she accepts something so repellant indicates just how little she now values herself.

I hate the fact that she describes it as 'work' when in truth it's just her being exploited. When she was telling me about it, she probably spent around twelve hours a week with him, running errands, doing his spreadsheets and (much as it sickens me to think about it) having sex with him as well as one night a week with him at his house. So I guess she's on about a twenty five hour week. £10 an hour, that's unskilled labour rates. She said 'he needs the companionship as much as I need the money' and says that they don't often sleep together - 'not every day' was her exact phrase. If he was paying to have sex with her once a week without all the skivvy work, escorting work, 'companionship' etc, thrown in she'd be on the same wages as a call-girl. What's worse is the fact that she has to lie to her family and friends and pretend to them that she's actually in a legitimate relationship with him. When someone is forced to lie to those close to them, they're being controlled.

I've been in touch with her today and she does seem to want to find a way out of it; that can't come soon enough for me. There are few people in the world who I can honestly say that I hate but he and other men of his ilk are certainly on that list.

I was brought up by a single mother in very challenging financial circumstances, my mum got nothing from my father and getting by day to day was very difficult for her, despite the fact that she was working full time.

Had I ever found out that a man had exploited her like this man is exploiting my friend, I'd have hunted him down and made him suffer. In my friend's case, I just want to see her out of it, all ties to him cut and able to get the practical support from me and professional counseling she needs to regain her sense of self worth.

LouisevilleLlama, I agree, the 'Daddy' and 'Baby' terminology is extremely disturbing, despite both parties being over the age of legal consent it still seems almost paedophilic. It's not true consent either, it's bribary and coercion, if she wouldn't voluntarily have sex with this man for free, (and she wouldn't - Based on his looks alone I suspect that he'd struggle to even find a woman his own age to sleep with him) - it's not true consent. When he was my age, thirty eight, my friend was only twelve... It's just sick.

There are some big practical differences between becoming a 'sugar baby' and marrying for money. Sugar babies are called ESCORTS and get paid to spend time with multiple older sleezy men, marry for money types (insert own definition of what you call this) get to spend all their time with just one old sleezy man. Unless you marry a good looking one and it all goes swimmingly. If I was a sugar baby I wouldn't tell anyone because personally I wouldn't want anyone to know, especially my family. I disagree that all sugar babies are exploited though, if you are strong enough to deal with it and you are getting paid then it is a job, especially if you have actively chosen to do it over other jobs and have not been forced to do the job. Sex work - work being the clue. Not for everyone though, obviously.

If your personal circumstances prevent you from doing work that you'd prefer to do and you're desperate, with dependents to provide for, and you feel you have no alternative but to sell your body (at the cost of your own mental health) then I can't think of another word that describes the circumstances better than 'exploitation'.

Sure, if a young woman who has options decides to enter into an agreement with an older man whom she finds physically and emotionally attractive it's different but how many 'sugar babies' does that apply to in the real world? How many would actively choose to have sex with their 'daddies' for no money or perks, based purely on physical and emotional attraction - Say if this man, a quarter century or more older than her, was stony broke with only his d**k to offer?

I'd wager that the number is a very small percentage of the whole. Having sex with someone you find unattractive isn't good for you, we've evolved over millennia to desire sex with those we find physically attractive. Shutting down that base instinct for something as contemporary as money and trinkets is not good for the mind or soul, no matter how strong anyone considers themselves.

I guess the sugar babies who tell their families about their arrangements are the few who are absolutely OK with the circumstances but like you yourself said you would were you in their position, most keep it very, very secret. They are living a lie.

I go to work, I earn reasonably well and I don't have to have my body or dignity violated in order to earn my wage - I guess I'm very lucky that I've never been that desperate. The vast majority of women in prostitution are doing it because of poverty and the lack of an alternative, a tiny minority engage in it out of choice. Many of those forced into it suffer from PTSD and other crippling mental health problems afterwards.

Let's assume that ten percent of cars reached their destinations without bursting into flames and incinerating their occupants, because those ten percent were OK would you suggest that cars were generally a safe way to travel?

Because a small minority of women engage in prostitution out of choice and don't go on to to suffer with mental health issues, it really doesn't mean that 'sex work' is a safe and valid occupation. By the way, 'sex work' is far too generic a term when we're not talking about all sex work but we're actually talking about a very specific type of sex work - Prostitution - In which someone is physically penetrated by men or a man whom, were it not for a financial transaction, they otherwise wouldn't allow to even touch them.

SugarBabies are never going to gain anybody's respect but it is a business transaction at the end of the day. If she's happy to waste her best years on some superficial relationship then it's her choice. She could use those years to find a guy who would actually love her and possibly provide for her as well, and who wouldn't dump her when the look is gone. We all know looks will fade.

'It's her choice'... Sure, if her 'choice' is to see her children go hungry or to engage in a 'business transaction' that is undignified and dehumanizing for her...

Doesn't sound like much of a 'choice' to me, it's certainly not one I'd ever like to find myself having to make.

Some women make an absolute fortune doing this - and they choose to do it. 'Sugar babies' or whatever you want to call them are not all giving blow jobs in the back of a ford fiesta and then getting a belt around the face. Some women actually make the choice to do this work. And business transaction doesn't need to be 'business transaction' - it really is work and therefore an actual business transaction. If all sex WORKERS had rights as workers, which is what they techncially are, then might not be so easy for police and society to continually deny them any rights at all. Sorry but i think some people are being a bit naive about this - i know one woman irl (not me) who meets a Saudi prince once a month in London and gets about 5 grand each time. And she definitely actively chooses to do it, willingly.

Agreed that the sugar babies gain no respect, woman i know who does it me and her sister are only 2 people that know and she also has a 'normal' marketing job.

My god, surely the escort route is better or at least more honest.

Zombie op, I would leave her well alone, be a friend but there is little you can do.