To think this man was somewhat justified in what he did?

[Loeri]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10286653/Man-takes-dates-Blackberry-mobile-phone-after-she-refuses-to-pay-half-the-bill.html

It's 2013. A woman is taking the piss in going out on a date with no money, especially to a swanky place where two rounds of drinks cost £54! I really can't blame the man for being extremely pissed off with her and holding her phone as collateral.

[OrmirianResurgam]

I take it they aren't seeing each other again then
Bloody ridiculous!

[WafflyVersatile]

I wouldn't suggest a first date anywhere where I couldn't afford to foot the whole bill if I had to.

One bloke I went on a date with in his eagerness to impress (in the face of indifferent politeness from me) took me to some quite expensive restaurant. I made no offer to pay. I normally would. I didn't take the piss with expensive drinks or anything though.

If she suggested the place then I have more sympathy with his anger.

[Pennyacrossthehall]

iloveweetos I personally would be offended if this happened to me. On the first date I wouldn't expect to pay.

FreudiansSlipper so he was trying to buy her

Not meaning to pick on the two specific posters above, but they illustrate a running (contradictory) theme in a lot of the responses. Anyone want to try to reconcile these views?

For what it's worth, I think that she was very unreasonable and his subsequent behaviour was atrocious.

[Lweji]

He should have asked for a separate bill and paid for his part.

Let her deal with the fallout with the bar.

Or clarify who pays what from the start.

As it was, he stole her Blackberry.

[PaperSeagull]

No, of course he wasn't justified. What he did was clearly criminal.

However, I find it appalling that some women still collude with the cultural expectation that they should be dependent and passive (e.g., waiting for the man to ask her out, expecting him to pay for everything, waiting for him to propose marriage, etc.). Yuck, yuck, yuck.

[pigletmania]

Waffley you should have suggested a cheaper place then, you could ave afford to pay your half

[Sparklysilversequins]

My thoughts are this.

He was probably totally grim. She stuck around for a couple of drinks to be polite. He requested that she buy a round. He was SO grim that this made her because surely her company was payment enough and there was no way she was going to pay a large amount for a round on a date she was not enjoying anyway!

She tried to leave and her nicked her phone thus confirming that he was a total tool.

Seriously what right minded person does something like that? Surely the only way to respond to her refusal to buy a drink is to graciously bring the date to a swift end?

He sounds like a complete desperado.

[CuChullain]

The guy acted like a thug and idiot.

That said, it still amazes me how many women still have this 'first date' entitlement attitude in 2013 (usually citing some 'but its gentlemanly behaviour' or 'chivalrous' as justification)

[Pendeen]

Are the names real?

"Nimmala" and "Sultana"?

Surely the Torygraph is making it all up?

[Chattymummyhere]

Is it not part of dating where you try and Woo the other person anymore?

man or women for that matter which ever one instigated the date is trying to impress the other and make them self at lest look to be a good partner? One who is willing to pay to take said male/female out show them a good time and if all goes well on date #2 the other pays or they go half and half?

Half and Half on a first date you might as well be out drinking with mates at the local night club.. where you would no doubt get sex


However forgetting who paid what and who invited who it is NEVER ok to steal someones phone! Poor girl was probably trying to contact friends or family about this angry man following her!

[BoneyBackJefferson]

He was bU, He should have paid his half and left her to deal with the fallout.

[limitedperiodonly]

Is it not part of dating where you try and Woo the other person anymore?

chattymummyhere you and I of the same opinion. It's why I ask DH to look both ways before crossing the road. If he died, I'd rather get a cat.

[OnTheBottomWithAWomensWeekly]

Are the names made up? Are you for fucking real?

[MidniteScribbler]

Why do so many think that the man should pay for the first date?

It's not about expecting a man to pay for the first date. It's about someone's general attitude toward money. If someone got a round of drinks and said "that will be 5.29 for your share" I'd consider them a pretty stingy type of person. I refuse to go out to dinner with people who would sit there and split a bill down to the exact cents. I actually moved out of a share house in my student days because of someone who complained because the night I cooked dinner I used ingredients I got on sale and the night before when they cooked dinner they spent $2 more than I had. I simply cannot live with that type of person. So someone quibbling about a couple of drinks on a first date would be an immediate turn off for me.

I have no problem with "I'll pay for dinner if you get the movie tickets" type of arrangement. Or I would insist on paying on the second date if they paid for the first one. Things balance out over time generally. If I buy tickets to a concert for us, he can get tickets to the theatre next time. No need to determine who paid a couple of dollars more than the other and making it all exactly equal. If I'm going to be in a long term relationship with someone, I don't want to spend all my time keeping track of who has spent more than the other person.

[cumfy]

And how much is the CPS charging the taxpayer for this ?

Several grand all told. More than a one day trial.

No doubt he is a knob of the highest order, but why not just caution him with assault and or criminal damage from when he threw the phone ?

But theft ? Really ?

[LadyBeagleEyes]

I bet the problem wouldn't have arisen at all if she'd shagged him..
Then he'd have got value for his money.
And 54 quid for 2 rounds?
I must live in another universe

[CharityFunDay]

She's a cheapskate skank, he's a fucking idiot.

They ought to stay together, it would be a shame to ruin two homes.

[daisychain01]

Havent read all the posts on here, but I got the gist.

Just urgh on many levels! The thought of a man even worrying about 25 quid or whatever half the bill was - well he would be history in my book. What a petty cheap skate arse. Lacking in style and grace. And then nicking his date's mobile phone. What's wrong with the old fashioned approach of boy asks girl out on a date, boy pays for girl, everyone's happy

Maybe the bloke should have got the girl to pay a deposit in advance direct into his bank account, just to be on the safeside.

[Retroformica]

He should have paid half the tab and then told the pub/date she was responsible for her own half

[Runningchick123]

Cumfy - the man was probably offered a caution, but accepting a caution means accepting guilt and being saddled with a criminal record. To be guilty of theft there as to be some certainty that he intended to permanently deprive her of the phone and I think his argument is that he was just going to hold onto it until she paid for half of the bill. It Also isn't criminal damage unless the phone was actually damaged.
I think the cps should be reprimanded for going ahead with this as a trial and wasting public money.

Midnite- I too hate it when people want to calculate spliting the bill down to what they ate / drank and prefer to just split it equally but I think in this case they agreed to meet mutually through a dating website and she had no intention of paying anything. I would be pissed off if I mutually agreed to meet friends for dinner / drinks and they refused to pay any of the bill and wanted to leave as soon as it was their turn to buy a round (fortunately, I don't have any freeloading mates).

[BoneyBackJefferson]

MidniteScribbler
"It's not about expecting a man to pay for the first date. It's about someone's general attitude toward money"

If its about attitude to money

Then the woman has a bad attitude about men spending money on her.

AND if its truly not about the money where could someone have a first date that is not expensive without being seen as cheap?

[MidniteScribbler]

Runningchick - Oh I think she should have definitely offered to buy a round, I'm not disputing that at all. I was just answering the general comment about people expecting men to pay on the first date.

BoneyBackJefferson - It's not about the actual amount spent. I'd be just as happy with a drink at a local pub, as I would dinner at the best restaurant in town. I want to meet the person, not have some flashy display of wealth. But just the same, I don't want them to be a cheapskate either and expect the entire cost split down the middle. A round each, or one person buying dinner and the other buying movie tickets is fine by me, as long as someone isn't counting the pennies and demanding it.

[dahville]

Pendeen Nimmala is a common enough Indian name; at best you sound a bit intolerant asking if the names are real.

OP - YABVU. Both their behaviour was questionable on the date but only his behaviour was criminal after she ended the date.

[VelvetSpoon]

Stealing someone's phone is not justified under any circumstances, and certainly not in this case.

I have been on far too many dates. For the most part men have paid, for a coffee, or a couple of rounds of drinks. Sometimes I have offered to buy a round, usually that offer has been declined. I wouldn't be impressed if a date offered me a drink or two, then said 'your share of the bar bill is x' or whatever. If you buy a drink for someone that's it. If you only want to buy one drink, next time you say 'your round'.

£54 really isn't a huge sum (I know plenty of people who go for dinner on the first date which can cost maybe double that). It saddens me people think the woman is at fault here, simply for not offering to pay.

That sits ill with me; those of you who consider he was entitled to take her phone because she didn't pay her share, what would you say if instead of taking her phone, he'd forced a kiss on her, or groped/ assaulted her as 'payment'? If that would be unjustified (which it def would in my book) so is taking her phone.