To think this man was somewhat justified in what he did?

[Loeri]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10286653/Man-takes-dates-Blackberry-mobile-phone-after-she-refuses-to-pay-half-the-bill.html

It's 2013. A woman is taking the piss in going out on a date with no money, especially to a swanky place where two rounds of drinks cost £54! I really can't blame the man for being extremely pissed off with her and holding her phone as collateral.

[limitedperiodonly]

He does sound like a catch. I wonder if he's still single?

[MidniteScribbler]

Of course his behaviour wasn't justified.

I don't think I've ever been on a first date when the man didn't pay. Usually there's is a brief "let me get this round" "no, my treat" type roundabout conversation. But a man who chased me down the road wanting half the cost of a couple of drinks wouldn't be someone I'd be interested in a second date with. Stingy is a very unattractive trait in anyone.

[FunnyRunner]

YABVVVU. Yes, she sounds like an entitled little madam - but he made himself into a fucking criminal!

[NeoMaxiZoomDweebie]

He's a dick for taking her phone and she's a dick for not taking any cash out! They should definitely get together.

[NeoMaxiZoomDweebie]

Midnite Really? You've never bought drinks or anything on a first date?

[MidniteScribbler]

No, I can't recall ever having done so. I do always offer though.

[Fakebook]

They're both stingy arseholes. I'd think it was a match made in heaven tbh!

[SilverOldie]

Unless we've morphed to 1913, why would she assume he would pay? It seems inconceivable to me to go out on a date (first or subsequent) without cash or cards. On the other hand his behaviour was wrong and he shouldn't have stolen her phone.

Neither sounds a great catch do they.

[ImperialBlether]

I agree that it was a match made in heaven. Both were incredibly rude. Each of them tried to mug the other. They deserve to be together.

[AthelstaneTheUnready]

Not justified in the slightest. Feeling hard done by because someone doesn't offer to buy you something, or doesn't recompense you for something you voluntarily bought them, is no excuse for physical reprisals. Nasty attitude there.

First date etiquette is not set in stone. I think I veer towards someone's notion (sorry, forgot who) further up about 'invitations'. If someone invited me out to dinner I would assume they were... hosting?... the evening and would pay. I would offer to pay my share, but not expect to have to. In the same way, if I asked someone if they would come to dinner with me, I would assume that I would be paying as I was the ('host' is the wrong word but I can't think of a better one).

[IloveJudgeJudy]

This really amazes me every time it comes up on MN. Why do so many think that the man should pay for the first date? in 2013? I know of a poor teenager who was taken for this by some teenage girls who said he should pay as he's the "man" when a load of them went out at the end of term. It's disgraceful. You should all be ashamed who expect the man to pay. I cannot understand it. You want equality, but only when it advantages you.

I can tell you that this sort of attitude is still prevalent among the DDs that you are bringing up. When my DS goes out with girls, some of them expect him to pay for everything as he is the male. Why should he? They all earn the same-ish. This sort of attitude is what leads to this completely OTT reaction by the Defendant in the above case. I completely understand why he was annoyed.

[IloveJudgeJudy]

Another question. All of you who say you expect the man to pay if he's "invited" you to a date, would you ask the man? and then expect to pay? Look deep in your hearts.

[AthelstaneTheUnready]

"Look deep in your hearts."

I do hope you're not insinuating I'm saying things I don't believe to be true? .

No, I don't believe a man should pay for the date because he's a man. I explained above. I think if a person invites another person to do something with them, it is not unusual to bear the cost of the invitation. What about theater tickets? Cinema tickets? Do you ask for the cash upfront before you book a couple of seats?

When I invite people into my house for dinner, it goes without saying that I buy the food, buy the wine, spend the time preparing - I do not then ask for £20 at the end of the night. Just because the invitation is out of the house doesn't necessarily mean you abdicate all hosting responsibilities.

[edam]

This isn't a question of etiquette or equality or anything else. It's about am alleged crime. The prosecution says: "There is no dispute the defendant took the phone from her hand and nor is there any dispute he had no permission to take the phone."

Doesn't matter how they met, who decided where they went, what assumptions were made, no-one has the right to steal (in general, obv. we await the defence and the verdict in this case).

[Runningchick123]

Unready To be fair most people who go to somebody's house for dinner will bring something - a bottle of wine, some beers, flowers, after dinner mints etc.
Even though somebody else is hosting it is still nice to bring a gift or something to be drunk/eaten at the meal. Of course as the host you have everything that you need anyway but it's just good manners to bring something.
Even if I was invited on a first date would offer to go 'Dutch' and wouldn't feel aggrieved if my date accepted my offer.
All hypothetical for me anyhow as I have been married for a very long time. But I will certainly be peeved if girls expect my sons to pay the full bill when they start dating. It doesn't really matter who asked who out as somebody has to make the first move or nobody would ever get together.
The couple in the article were Internet dating so chances are that it was a mutual invite.

[MoonlightPicnic]

....and how many drinks would he have bought her if he hadn't mentioned her getting in a round?

Do you think it's something she does often?

I can't believe anyone would go out without money. Read going equiped for exploitation.

Having said that he acted like an aggressive twat and was a complete non-gentleman. The sensible path would have been for him just to walk away and not look back.

Both would be plumbing the depths of the dating pool.

[AthelstaneTheUnready]

Yes, Running, and most people invited out will offer to pay some/part/all of the bill; I think JudgeJudy's young women sound horrendous.

But I still cannot imagine asking a man out for a drink, and then saying 'that'll be £3, cheers' (last of the big spenders, me). And yes, when my (now ex, so this may ruin the moral impact of the story) husband and I started going out, I asked him out for dinner, and as I had asked, I paid the bill. And it wasn't even 2013 way back then .

[AthelstaneTheUnready]

We don't KNOW she had no money. We are told she SAID she had no money. A man she had only just met - an angry man - was demanding she get her purse out and give him £25 - I can see how she might have just denied having any cash and made a run for it (since we're making up scenarios here).

[Runningchick123]

Having read the article on the daily mail (yes, hanging my head in shame) the court was apparently told that the man paid for two rounds and then asked the woman to buy the third round at which point she decided to leave, so he chased her down as he felt 'cheated'.
Sounds to me like she would have stayed if he had been prepared to buy the third round in which case she is a total freeloader.
He was totally out of order to snatch her phone, but it does sound like she probably goes on dates just to get free nights out.

[SoupDragon]

. A man she had only just met - an angry man - was demanding she get her purse out and give him £25

I got the impression that he was angry after she refused and claimed to have no money.

[SigmundFraude]

Ah chivalry, the sisterhood killed that one dead, maybe someone should have informed this woman.

I doubt she'll go out without cash again, and I doubt he'll presume his date has cash on her. So there's a silver lining to this sorry tale.

[limitedperiodonly]

It could have been that after two drinks with him she decided she couldn't stand his company a minute longer.

I'd have probably turned down the second drink - it normally only takes one to realise someone is an arsehole. But maybe he was insistent and she was embarrassed. It happens.

I wouldn't have offered him the cash in compensation for not shagging him because that would have been awkward and insulting.

I'd be surprised if most men would take it under those circumstances anyway. But he sounds like the kind of charmer who would.

If he'd have insisted on the money, of course I'd have paid up, and then posted on mumsnet as soon as I got in - after bolting all the doors.

I wonder if he has a coin purse?

[NoelHeadbands]

Of course YABU, it's the behaviour of the unhinged.

She may have been naive and foolish, she may have been physically revolted and desperate to get away or she may have just been greedy and sly- who knows? It's irrelevant because none of that should leave you open to aggressive and criminal behaviour.

And yes, he so has a coin purse.

[limitedperiodonly]

Of course YABU, it's the behaviour of the unhinged

It would have saved a lot of typing if I'd have just said this

[pigletmania]

I agree with runningchick, she sounds like a freeloader, but the mans behaviour was out of order. Yes she does sound like the type to go on dates for a free night out. Both are in th wrong here