To think this man was somewhat justified in what he did?

[Loeri]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10286653/Man-takes-dates-Blackberry-mobile-phone-after-she-refuses-to-pay-half-the-bill.html

It's 2013. A woman is taking the piss in going out on a date with no money, especially to a swanky place where two rounds of drinks cost £54! I really can't blame the man for being extremely pissed off with her and holding her phone as collateral.

[flossieraptor]

But in those bars you don't run up a bill and then decide who pays do you? You either pay cash or card as you go or leave a card behind the bar for your tab.

[itshowwedo]

I agree with flossie on the mechanics of the card/rounds. Bet he was happy to pay when he thought he might score then tried to get back money he happily spent when she ditched him.

[aturtlenamedmack]

As bluegrass suggests, paying for his share and leaving her to deal with the bar would have been a much more appropriate course of action.
It is never ok to harass or attack a woman.

[FreudiansSlipper]

so he was trying to buy her, did not work out and acted in a threatening manner wtf you think that is reasonable

yes she should have gone out with money but you learn from your experiences not go round threatening people. Why did he not ask her to buy the second round

[SolomanDaisy]

I can't believe anyone thinks that it is reasonable to chase a woman down the street, scream at her, physically intimidate her and steal from her. What the fuck is wrong with you that you think this is a normal male female interaction?

[aturtlenamedmack]

And the reason that he managed to get hold of her phone? Because she was using it. Probably trying to call friends and family for help because a lunatic was chasing her down the street. So he left her frightened and with no means of contacting anyone.

[Bluegrass]

How was he trying to buy her if he expected them to go Dutch?

The mechanics of payment could work. In posher bars with table service you order drinks and then get a bill at the end to settle, just as you would in a restaurant. No need to pay as you go or for one person to put a card behind the bar.

[FreudiansSlipper]

why is the question about being equal coming up

The issue is this man intimidated a women, he did not feel she was his equal that is why he felt he could because that is his character

[SoupDragon]

He should've made her aware that he expected to go Dutch

Perhaps she should have made him aware she expected him to pay.

No, taking her phone wasn't the right course of action. I can see his point but his solution was completely inappropriate.

I'm not sure just paying his half of the bill would have worked if she was leaving.

[aturtlenamedmack]

The defendant got fed up after he shelled out money for a date that was going nowhere'.
Sounds like he way expecting one kind of repayment or another.

[Loeri]

She should not have left the bar without paying. It's no different to if she was on her own and snuck out.

[AmberLeaf]

The prosecution case is the defendant was fed up having shelled out money on a date that was going nowhere and he decided to teach Fakhara Sultana a lesson by stealing her mobile phone out of spite and causing her maximum inconvenience in doing so

Sounds like he was prepared to pay when he thought he was going to get his leg over.

What a creep, Id love to hear from some of his other 'dates'

[NotYouNaanBread]

He paid for 2 rounds, rather than suggesting she pay for one of them as they were being ordered. Then it seems that she subsequently cut the date short (ie he now had no chance of getting laid) and only at that point did he start freaking out about money, or so the wording of the article suggests.

[flossieraptor]

Bars in Leicester Sq are not the most genteel, sedate places. I don't think the 'have a table and get a bill at the end' mechanic would work out, with people joining groups, moving on, etc. It would be an unholy mess.

[flossieraptor]

Loeri, I don't think she left the bar without paying the bar, just without refunding her would-be lover.

[Loeri]

It's the same thing. He didn't want to pay for her and seemingly had not told her that he would be paying.

[LessMissAbs]

I really am horrified by some of the posters on here who think assault and theft is justified by a social meeting.

The date was a social event to which no set rules apply. You can see that from the confusion over who should pay. While he clearly expected half payment, she had different expectations and the rules weren't clearly set out in advance, so neither is in the wrong. You also ask questions such as whose choice was it to go to such an expensive bar, buy such expensive drinks and whether she drunk them or if the date was so unsuccessful, she spent the evening trying to get away. However by paying, the immediate bill was settled and this does not create an equally immediate right to self-determined and forced compensation. His remedy in law would have been to sue her for half payment. And the Blackberry is worse more than £25, never mind the assault (putting her in a state of fear and alarm).

I would also question his motives - some men treat women like prostitutes, and equate taking them with an expensive bar and buying them a couple of drinks to expecting them to go home with them and have sex. Its a complete overreaction to what happened on the man's part. If half payment was really so important to him, he should have set out the "rules" of the date in advance.

[Bluegrass]

Flossie - at that price they could've been at W Hotels which has table service for cocktails.

Regarding this bit

"The prosecution case is the defendant was fed up having shelled out money on a date that was going nowhere"

the key words here are "the prosecution case". It it is their job to make him look as bad as possible, so I don't think you can just take this as a statement of fact as to how it went!!

[Loeri]

LessMiss, I would think that if nothing to the contrary was agreed upon beforehand, paying your own way would be the rule. Why would it not be?

[FloozeyLoozey]

I've been on a lot of dates, and always offer to pay my way. Many men insist and pay for me, but I am always prepared to pay for myself. She was foolish not to be prepared in this day and age.

[aturtlenamedmack]

If she was on her own, the bar would have phoned the police, they wouldn't have taken it upon themselves to take her possessions.
If he had expected her to pay then he should have paid for one round and suggested that she pay for the next or they should have each paid separately, not asked to be reimbursed at the end.
I do think she should have had cash and I would always want to pay for myself in this situation but his reaction was absolutely not justified. He attacked her.

[IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou]

I've been to Ruby Blue. It is expensive and rammed with hen parties.

If you buy a drink for someone you can't then ask them for the money, you can suggest they get the next round but you can't mug them in the street.

I'd bet my house that he was a knob, so she left and then her realised he wasn't getting a shag so kicked off. He asked for the money after she said she was going home 'cutting the date short'. She was an idiot going out without money. I wouldn't be completely shocked if she did have money but didn't want to hand it over to a tosser, preferring instead to run away.

[GrimmaTheNome]

Ms Sultana had assumed it was the gentleman's prerogative to pay for everything on the first date

Although most of us will consider this to be an outdated assumption, its probably more likely to persist if you come from a particularly patriarchal culture.

Still stupid to go on a first date without money; still entirely unacceptable for this to be the outcome "At that point she realised the defendant was becoming angry. She got her mobile phone out and started to try and use it. At that point, the defendant grabbed her mobile phone from her hand and ran off down the street with it."


She misinterpreted the social rules; he stole her phone.

[aturtlenamedmack]

There are legal ways for him to recoup his money if he felt so strongly about it.

[HotCrossPun]

They sound like a pair of nutcases.

You don't go and buy drinks and then ask to be refunded afterwards. You get a round and if you are going dutch, you wait for the next person to buy a round.

If you think you have been wronged, and that somebody has deliberately scammed you of your money - you don't steal from them and intimidate them to get some form of recompense. You go to the police.

She was stupid for going out on a blind date with no money. He was an aggressive twat for the way he acted.