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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think this man was somewhat justified in what he did?

164 replies

Loeri · 05/09/2013 07:02

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10286653/Man-takes-dates-Blackberry-mobile-phone-after-she-refuses-to-pay-half-the-bill.html

It's 2013. A woman is taking the piss in going out on a date with no money, especially to a swanky place where two rounds of drinks cost £54! I really can't blame the man for being extremely pissed off with her and holding her phone as collateral.

OP posts:
LadyBryan · 05/09/2013 09:00

It doesn't matter what she expected or whether she carried cash or not.

His behaviour was completely inexcusable

SilverApples · 05/09/2013 09:01

So if I joined an internet dating site, I could expect to wine and dine at someone else's expense on every first date? Where do I sign?
Forget 50 First Dates, I could do years.

Lazyjaney · 05/09/2013 09:06

Of course he was wrong, but I sort of admire someone taking OTT action when they have been wronged by someone playing them for a fool.

utreas · 05/09/2013 09:08

He's a bully and she's a freeloader both are pretty horrible human beings.

jammiedonut · 05/09/2013 09:09

I've always been 'treated' on first dates, but would not be miffed if asked to pay my way, and would not accept a date if I could not afford to go on it. So in that respect this woman is unreasonable. It in no way excuses this man harassing and mugging her of her phone though, I'm not sure there is ever a valid excuse for that. As for comparing her to a pickpocket, how ludicrous!

LeGavrOrf · 05/09/2013 09:11

She was a cheeky fucker, but of course he wasn't justified in swiping her phone. Imagine following someone and haranguing them for money and then swiping her phone and running off. It's theft.

If the drinks hasn't been paid for he should have just paid for his and left the bar and the woman would have had to sort out paying for the drinks with the bar.

I can't imagine the woman didn't have a card on her of some sort.

I would always pay 50-50 on a first date and I am surprised at the people on here who would automatically expect the man to pay for drinks and dinner on a date. Why should he?

SilverApples · 05/09/2013 09:12

Not a pickpocket, a con artist.
He should have retreated with his dignity intact and contacted the dating agency to inform them about events, as HoneyDragon said.
He lost his temper and now he's in court. Bad choice.

SilverApples · 05/09/2013 09:13

'Why should he?'

Because it's traditional and wooomantic? God knows.

treaclesoda · 05/09/2013 09:13

he sounds horrible, and its in no way justified.

But equally I'm amazed that women expect a man to pay if they go on a date. I'm in my late 30s and when I was younger I would never have expected a man to pay, and neither would any of my friends. I've never had a man buy me dinner, and I don't think any of my friends have either. I thought that only happened in the 1960s, or in the movies. Has that sort of stuff made a comeback?

Lovecat · 05/09/2013 09:14

YABVU. He acted like an arsehole; chased her, snatched the phone from her, ran off.

She really shouldn't have gone out without money (actually I'm not sure I believe she went out completely penniless, that's not something most of us do whether we're on a date or not) but I would expect if I was asked out by someone on a date for them to pay the first date (although I would have cash on me just in case the bloke turned out to be an entitled wanker). However I fully accept I've been off the dating scene since 1987 and internet dating is a scary new world to me where the rules may well differ.

Also, from my knowledge of British women of Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi descent on the dating scene (worked in an office full of young women from that background until very recently), many fully expect the man to pay for everything on the first AND subsequent dates and are quite scathing about those who don't. Possibly some cultural wires were crossed.

SoupDragon · 05/09/2013 09:15

As an aside, he didn't mug her. He snatched the phone - there was no attack. Still wrong but he wasn't actually physically violent, just opportunistic and stupid

SoupDragon · 05/09/2013 09:16

He didn't chase her either. They appear to have left together and walked to the station.

MrsOakenshield · 05/09/2013 09:17

I'm astonished that women still think they shouldn't pay on a first date (or any date, come to that), are we still in the 1950s?? Presumably he told her where they were meeting, she could have googled it and found out how expensive it was and if it was too steep she could have suggested somewhere else.

He was BU to chase her down the street and nick her phone, but really. I think any women who expects a man to pay just sounds grasping, tbh.

50shadesofmeh · 05/09/2013 09:23

It sounds like he was happy to flash his cash and pay for all the drinks up until she said she was leaving and he suddenly started demanding she pay for his half. She probably refused as she knew he thought he was getting a shag and left.

Longdistance · 05/09/2013 09:23

She's an idiot for not having any money on her.

And I say she's had a lucky escape from such a man.

Any wonder why these too are single Confused

DreamingofSummer · 05/09/2013 09:29

If the positions were reversed, would we be praising her for being a strong and assertive woman?

Lampshadeofdoom · 05/09/2013 09:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QuintessentialOldDear · 05/09/2013 09:32

I think he initiated that the drinks were on him the moment he put HIS card behind the bar.

Not everybody carry around a lot of cash these days.

LeGavrOrf · 05/09/2013 09:46

I can't imagine that a woman would go into central London without a card at the very least.

QuintessentialOldDear · 05/09/2013 09:51

Maybe she had a card, just did not want to take it out for him?
Maybe she was scared he would follow her to the cash-point and take more than just her phone?

hairsprayday · 05/09/2013 10:01

I've always been treated on first dates, internet dating or not. I've never had any issue with it, whether I took the date any further or not.
I find it odd that she would not have brought cash/card with her in London, but agree she might just have been bluffing (I think I would have done with someone like that). He sounds very unpleasant regardless, and I think she was right to leave.

Runningchick123 · 05/09/2013 10:05

She sounds like a freeloader and he sounds like an asshole.
What woman goes on a first date and doesn't take any money?
What if something went wrong and she needed to get a cab home? Why would any self respecting woman automatically assume that a man is going to pay just because he has a penis?
I can't stand the idea that men should pay for the first date. A lot of men do indeed offer to pay for the first date but it shouldn't be an automatic assumption and when people ae Internet dating the are likely to be going on a lot of dates and should expect to split the costs.

Regardless he should not have taken her phone. He should have learnt that trying to be a macho fool and putting you card behind the bar is not a good idea and that in future he will pay cash for a round and then ask the date to get the nex round in or say "do you drink wine, should we just go halves and share a bottle?"

No wonder some people are single.

flossieraptor · 05/09/2013 10:06

Obviously I don't have all the facts, by if he did pay by card, as I assume he did, he took away her option of using a card. I often don't carry much cash on me as everywhere takes cards. It's the most normal thing in the world to hand your card over the bar to pay for a round of drinks. If I've got cash on me I probably need it for a cab and wouldn't want to be queuing up for a cashpoint in LQ at midnight.

SarahAndFuck · 05/09/2013 10:35

No, he wasn't justified.

This man frightened a woman so badly as he followed her down the street demanding money that she tried to call for help and he took the opportunity to mug her.

We don't know anything else about the date. We can speculate all we like about who invited whom, who chose the venue, what was agreed beforehand, but it isn't in the article and we weren't there. So we don't know. Personally I would have wanted to pay my share and I think she would have been safer if she had her own cash to at least get a bus or taxi with if she wanted or needed to get away alone.

But regardless, he had no right to follow her, demanding money she said she didn't have and then mugging her when she tried to call for help.

What might he have done to her if she didn't have a phone to steal? Taken her bag? Followed her to her house? Hit her? Raped her?

Because all of that will probably have been going through her mind as he harassed her along the road.

EmmelineGoulden · 05/09/2013 11:05

Poor behaviour by both of them though especially him. Still, I can see that he would think he was justfied in holding collateral or taking other value for the debt. Just as I would see she holds the belief she shouldn't pay for the first date (and hence her turning up and drinking without any money was not some form of theft). I don't agree with either of these positions, but I can see how they can be generally held view points and so I think the whole dispute falls under civil not criminal law.

The problem is that civil law doesn't really provide a good way of sorting out issues like this.