To think that the health visitor should have known what 4 month sleep regression is?

[acer12]

I didn't know what it even was but when I posted on MN about my DD2 not sleeping, it was suggested by some fabulous ladies and it was a bloody revelation, I literately had a tick list of symptoms. She was waking every 90 mins through night and only cap napping during day and I was hallucinating! Googled advice and fixed the problems. Learning self settling, more sleep, swaddling...ect and it worked!

Went to get baby weighed, my usual lovely HV wasn't there and the HV that I spoke to about it was really about it and lectured me on the dangers of swaddling.

No one else seems to know either?! Mil was trying to force calpol down her convinced it was teething (luckily DH fended her off) as she was cranky ALL the time but she was just shattered!

is this widely known???

The only people who made any money out of DD's sleep regression was Nespresso.

Sometimes there is no 'solution' apart from the passage of time.
None of these 'things' last forever.

I sort of get what LeBFG is saying. However, its often a comfort for people having to cope with these phases to share experiences.
Its just sad that everything that happens in a baby's life has to be given a label that in reality means absolutely nothing.

a few more for those still unconvinced..

Richter, J. & Woolmore, A. (2004). Regressive Periods, Maternal Depression and the Development of Insecure Attachment. Paper presented to WAIMH World Congress, Melbourne, Australia. Jan .

Rijt-Plooij, H.H.C. van de & Plooij, F. X. (1992) Infantile Regressions: Disorganisation and onset of transition periods. Journal of Reproductive and Infant Psychology. 10, 129-149.

Sadurni, M. & Rostan. C. (2002) Regression Periods in Infancy: A Case Study from Catalonia. The Spanish Journal of Psychology. Vol 5, No. 1, 36-44.

@ The only people who made any money out of DD's sleep regression was Nespresso.

Quite a lot of info there ovenbun!

Tbf oven I think some people just like to tough it out with calpol rather than seek or look for further knowledge to help ease the transition of this period

Step away from Google!

ovenbun I would very much like to read some of your links but just dumping references from your PhD thesis is not helpful. I hope you realise that it's the link between specific ages and cognitive development/behaviour that I query. Clearly, cognitive development and fussiness etc are linked and shown in other species. The idea of specific ages all seems derived around the Catalonia experiment already linked to where only 18 babies were studied.

The criticism I've made isn't based on my knowledge - it comes from what I experience and suspect to be true i.e. that babies aren't clockworks - they each have their own schedule. This is why I was highly suspect of the wonderweeks program. I would, however, be quite happy for you to link to something other than the Calaonia study which shows an explicit timetable.

Sorry, I don't want to highjack - I'm obviously very happy for people to share experiences and so on done it myself on enough occasions.

leBFG i haven't taken any of this to be stating that this WILL happen at THIS specific age. its all just guidelines to me. nobody has said babies are clockwork, have they?

I haven't bought the wonder weeks book but have been interested to hear snipits from it from friends who have found it helpful to them. why wouldn't i?

i think we're in agreement!

Why are my i's not I's! argh!

My first ds didn't have sleep regression my current ds has never had good sleep to regress from :( while you are happy that you have solved your dd's problem that's great but have you thought that for some babies it might actually be hunger or teething !

I imagine a thread of a parent annoyed with their hv because they want advice on teething or weaning only to be told its just a sleep regression !

All babies are different and hv must have a nightmare job dealing with know it all parents who berate them when they are trying to stear a middle ground with such widely different parenting ways !

snow steering a middle ground would suggest that both sides were acknowledged, it wasn't .

I never ever suggested that for all baby's it was suspected teething at it went and weening ect.. What I did query though was I wonder how many babies were like mine... Going through this period and teething, weening hunger was blamed.

All baby's are different, what works for others , won't on others. It's not a 'parenting issue' it's a proven biological fact!

Ive never read the book wonder years so it hasn't made a penny of me. My dd struggled for 3 weeks badly broken unsettled sleep, irritated and miserable during day and when I found links that fit and acted on them my dd is back to her old self . It wasn't just 'being fussy' or a 'bad nights sleep'

I coach/teach and I never stop learning, researching and making my self the best I can be for my students/pupils. So yes the Hv should have known about it, even if she didn't fully endorse it after finding out if baby wasn't ill and was maintaining weight, sleep patterns and suggestion about healthy sleep tips should have been discussed.

Maybe some Hv see it as a 9-5 run of the mill job instead of a vocation. My normal Hv would have gladly listened to me. NONE of the helpful suggestions or tips where invasive so why show scorn when it worked for me?

I really couldn't give a flying pigs fart any more dd is on her second nap of the day and I'm sat on my arse. Happy!

Also snow my dd is four months the government guidelines are to not start weening till 6 months so I was attacking people who ween although why a Hv would suggest at this stage is a bit

wasnt !

sorry info overload :) its not a phd..I don't even have a degree I'm just interested in the subject, as I think it's incredible stuff...when there are physical changes in the brain (which can be read about in development text books...and do happen at around the same time in most human bodys) these naturally have an effect on behaviour...no one would argue with the impact hormones have on teenage behaviour..this is a similar concept, a physical change that effects behaviour.

lots of the studies are hard to access online, but this e book gives a summary of a few, some are very small scale, one involves only two subjects, but they correlate with large scale primate studies.
books.google.co.uk/books?id=Mo0WJL7HJ0kC&pg=PA163&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

Because it is a behavioural reaction to a physical change, it makes sense that is occurs at around the same time...although every baby will react in their own way. It is an area that like most needs more studying, but for me it's enough, the leading scholars in the field Brazleton and Plooj both came to the same timescales for developmental stages independently, which I think is encouraging..

books.google.co.uk/books?id=K2KDz7MQFM4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=brazelton+legacy&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UH0oUvDyBM67hAfmuoGYBg&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=brazelton%20legacy&f=false

the above is one of the most recent books featuring the topic.
It all started being realised as part of attatchment theory and that mothers and babies were fin ding these specific periods more difficult.

I will stop hijacking now :)

But you coach/teach maternity (Is that even a thing?) and you hadn't heard of it?

Thanks for the links ovenbun. They make interesting reading - amazing what is published online nowadays.

I've skimmed to relevant bits and I could make quite a lot of comments about the Catalan data and analysis, which is what these specific regression period theories are based on (wonderweeks and touchstones). But I won't make these comments as I wouldn't want to bore anyone reading this thread. It is an area that like most needs more studying, but for me it's enough I'm pleased you like these ideas. For me, they remain in the realms of theory so, for me, these books are not enough.

I shall now stop the highjack too .

Just a note on evidence in the UK NHS system. Four times this pregnancy I have been told sertraline (an antidepressant) is 'totally safe' in pregnancy by doctors. One told me it was 'safer' to stay on it than come off it despite this contravening NICE guidance.

The only advice I ever got from my HV, despite having had moderate postnatal OCD and depressiob was to use coconut oil for cradle cap. She also told my CPN that she 'wasnt worried' about my ds2 dropping from 91st centile at birth to 0.4 at 20 weeks because my eldest had dropped from 75th to 25th. This led to lots ofreferences in my psychiatric reports to how I was excessively concerned about his weight though a GP referred to him as 'wasted'.. .

Perhaps there is no 4 mth sleep regression but my own experience and that of many I've read on MN is too many HVs offer subjective advice when it suits them and then get all precious about what is evidence and their remit. I don't see that there's anything to be sniffy about.

i have learnt many things on mn that now have a name to them rather than just a phase baby is going through tbh i ignore it as to me it is just a phase and a great way for an expert to often sell a book

ilethim ha h no, I'm a swimming teacher/ coach and on maternity. Sorry of the post reads that way

The just to buy a book argument is crap! I haven't bought one on it!

if ! Oh sod it I'm off my literacy is getting worse!!

its not crap

everything has a label now so an expert can give you advice on it. you may not have bought a book but did our parents, grandparents buy books with a method to do this or that

not suggesting it does not help but we are all caught up in it, advice and fads change constantly

never had it here

...did our parents, grandparents buy books with a method to do this or that

www.amazon.co.uk/Feeding-Care-Baby-Truby-King/dp/B002HFEEI0

just saying