to think that when there is a schools place crisis perhaps the government should think of ways to reduce birth rates?

[jellysandwich]

In my area (London) there is already a huge shortfall in places because there has been a baby boom. They are constantly opening new schools or creating bulge classes but this is often at the expense of other children who lose their playing fields and there is just not enough room in London to keep opening new schools and there is already a housing crisis because the country is so overcrowded.

I think perhaps it is time the government thought about limiting child related benefits to 2 children (which is the replacement rate) and those that want to have more can do so but not with taxpayers money. It would go some way to stopping some of the problems that rising birthrates create such as the school places crisis, overcrowding, pollution, increasing struggles for resources such as food and water and in an already overpopulated world I think the government is being negligent in not putting some sort of limit on child related benefits, especially when it seems to be counter-intuitive (if you work you don't get more money each time you have another child).

Im not trying to offend people with my opinion, so i apologise to those who are feeling offended. I come from a large family myself and i wouldn't want to deny any loving parent that desire. In an ideal world there would be no problem in living our lives exactly as we please ,but we don't live in an ideal world. Unless we sort this out then your children and my nephews n neices (10 of them so far) will be inheriting a far worse future than it needs to be.

filee777 could you please tell me what I should be claiming to get my 160 quid pw benefits. We are on a low income. Ta.

@dobbiesmum - i'd give you a prize! :-D i would like to homeschool when i adopt or have my own.

Thing is we've spent so much time as a race making time and energy saving things and made so much efficient (eg mass production) that we need less humans full stop - we as a race are unsustainable. Maybr they're hitting us both ways - squeezing benefits for dc and downgrading the nhs - birth rates down and death rates up.

As an aside i also wonder whether the baby boom is also a response to the unsettled atmosphere in global politics/wars - like there was a baby boom after ww2 - maybe an innate survival instinct?

Oh God. Are we back to the feckless poor?

No one on mumsnet ever goes on about the feckless bankers who started all thus nonsense in the first place.

Perhaps we should only give school places to those who can pay fur it?

As the third child, I'm feeling quite unwanted!

Dysfunctionally if the same red tape was extended to every potential parent it would solve the problem there and then.... Demoralising was the word I was searching for btw. That is exactly how it seems.

IMO there is no point punishing the children by cutting off CB, which could /should pay for food and clothing purely to punish the parents for their choices, and yes I am aware that some have children for less likeable reasons, I know some. Those in power want to save money? They should have the courage of their convictions and go after all levels of society, not just taking away the safety net at the bottom.
We as a society need to go back to something closer to what wellwobbly touched on, become more community and family minded and self sufficient.

you can't blame bankers for too many kids and our small island being overcrowded.

agree boffin about closing schools. this happened in 80s to local secondaries, no guessing what they put there, more housing then 15 years' later more schools needed.

I'd love to home ed, we're giving our eldest one more year and then we'll see. My prize will be wine and chocolate, I'll probably need it

No one on mumsnet ever goes on about the feckless bankers who started all thus nonsense in the first place.

Oh please. Seriously, we would have been in much the same mess, banking crisis or no banking crisis where things like birth rate spikes immigration and school places are concerned. And the pension crisis. And probably the housing bubble.

that shourl read 'birth rate spikes, immigration' etc

I think immigrants should not be allowed to live within London/London counties....I believe that would reduce the strain. I also think the universal credit will help the problem as poorer families/those on benefits either have to suck up the shortfall in the money or move out of London to a cheaper area. I know that's not idea many will like but I don't believe you should live in London if you cant afford to

I H. ed so somebody can have my dds place if they want it, and the NW isn't over crowded.
I do receive tax credits and cb though. However, dd has 6/8 more years of education yet.

The short-termism of government is a problem here too - because any bumper birth year only affects school places 4-5 and 11-12 years later, ie at least one election away. Governments do little that won't have an effect during the parliamentary term, and practically nothing that will have a negative effect during this parliamentary term with a positive benefit in the term after.

so how come people in poor countries without benefits have lots of kids? Methinks there isnt actually a link between benefits and numbers of children.
CTC didnt exist when I had no's 3 and 4 btw and I certainly didnt have them to get Child Benefit.

'but I don't believe you should live in London if you cant afford to'

Wave goodbye to shop assistants, bus drivers, nusrses, teachers, road sweepers, cleaners, midwives and all those others on below 30K. Probably to most people on below 50K.

Has anyone mentioned education? Why don't we educate young people about the realities of day to day life with a family, financial planning, budgeting etc?

"I think immigrants should not be allowed to live within London/London counties"

I'm an immigrant and I turn over close to £1000000 a year and employ 28 people, 26 of whom are British born. I'll live where I want which happens to be not in London

Doesn't the govt want more children to be working/paying tax when the population ages? One child will make an imbalanced population, with lots more pensioners and noone actually working?

They need to make more places with smart building programs asap.

A measure of a humane society is how they treat their most vulnerable. A child with parents who are not able to support them - whether through illness, death, redundancy, disability, bad luck or just plain fecklessness - is incredibly vulnerable.

I'm a higher rate tax payer - have been for nearly a decade now. Would I prefer to pay less tax - yes. Would I prefer it if people could support their own children - yes. Would I prefer it if people made their family planning decisions sensibly - errrr obviously!

But you can't "punish" the parents without punishing the children. And leaving British children in severe poverty - to me - is unacceptable.

Ithinkofhappy but you're a GOOD immigrant, not one of those nasty feckless ones coming over here and stealing our jobs, benefits and Wimmin all at the same time! You may live where you want.
givemeaboost who would clean the streets or serve you coffee if only the rich lived in London?

I am pretty egalitarian by nature, but the root is probably self-interest. Societies that abandon their vulnerable 1. End up being aggressive, unpleasant and crime ridden places to live in, and 2. Might abandon me if I suffer misfortune.

I do not think that YABU to want to debate these issues.

But I do think that YABU to think things are so straightforward.

When we had DC3 it was not with a thought as to what benefits were available. He was a much longed for baby and no amount of 'disincentive'' would have made us cease to want him.