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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not understand why those with lower income get free childcare even if they don't work

446 replies

PrincessScrumpy · 03/09/2013 13:47

2 mums from a toddler group I go to are on income support and their DC start their free 2 days a week at nursery at the age of 2. I have dd1 age 5, and dtds 2. We couldn't afford childcare for 2 babies so I had to cut my hours by more than half and work from home around dc which is hard but we wouldn't cover the bills if I didn't. obviously twins was a surprise and a huge financial hit so savings are very low/almost non existent.

Anyway, I have another year until my dtds get free childcare while a lady with one dc gets it at age 2 despite having no intention to work. This feels really unfair and I just don't get the reasoning.
I'm not trying to benefit bash but it's hard not to feel angry. Willing to accept iabu, but can't help feeling this way.

OP posts:
Original poster
PrincessScrumpy · 03/09/2013 14:40

Thanks sunshine that's a really sensible way to look at it.

OP posts:
brdgrl · 03/09/2013 14:40

I know it has been said already, but it is not childcare! Whether the parents are working or not is irrelevant.

My DD just took up her funded spot at nursery - I work, and I assure you, this is absolutely useless as childcare, anyway. I've had to rearrange my work schedule to take her. pick her up, etc, and it is only 2.5 hours a day...If I were relying on it as childcare, I'd be a fool. It's for her benefit, not mine.

sydlexic · 03/09/2013 14:41

I think these schemes were introduced with sure start. It is about safeguarding. Those that fall into a statistically higher risk group of having problems which would concern social services are in free nursery and can therefore be nannied by the state.

It isn't about anyone personally, just recognised as improving statistics.

LIZS · 03/09/2013 14:43

If things are hectic with your dt's have you spoken to your HV as I believe they can recommend your dc if you were eligible for this scheme. The parents don't need to have intention to work if they have U5's although as their dc get older it would be worth preparing for this (ie. training) before reality bites.

K8Middleton · 03/09/2013 14:43

I think it's really easy to be swayed by the political spin. Child care has rightly been identified as a huge barrier to people working and a political hot potato.

The early years education for 2 year olds was decided after research into the cost benefits of early intervention. It was never about child care but has been dragged out to try to meet a political need.

I can almost imagine the conversation at ConDem HQ:

Shiney PR type: "Righto chaps, public opinion says we need to do more about providing child care for working parents"
Osborne: "There's no money."
SPT: "we'll we need something"
Keen advisor: "Well we are about to give a load of nursery places to two year olds. That's also child care isn't it?"
Everyone:"ooh yes. Brilliant."

Lambsie · 03/09/2013 14:44

My son was given some free hours because he has severe sn. It was given as respite for us and for himto be around other children as it is difficult to take children with severe sn to toddler groups. It got him used to being apart from me but didn't otherwise help his development as they didn't have the expertise.

sunshine401 · 03/09/2013 14:51

Families can get income support again if they met certain criteria.

unlucky83 · 03/09/2013 14:51

This is like the free school meals thread - everyone on benefits gets it to make sure they catch the ones who come from a really, really deprived backgrounds - the ones who really need it - to try and level the playing field when they start school...
Except where we are (Scotland) I don't think all 2 yo with parents on benefits get it (yet?) - just the ones flagged up by HV/SW as needing it (and it is from 18mo)...
And it is pre-school education - not childcare...
We come from a mainly naice, small area - if any one is eligible they aren't using it - and if they did all the other parents would know and it would imply that someone thought you were a crap parent - or I guess you had some parenting problems...IYKWIM
(actually one child did start nursery early...now I think of it...likely because the mum does have health problems).
So the system where all 2 yo with parents on benefits get it is probably a good thing as it does actually remove SOME of the stigma...
I will also say -although preschool education (even for 3 yos) isn't compulsory - if a child is involved with SS etc, the preschool education provider will be asked to inform the SW if child is absent frequently ...it is expected the child will attend...

FourLittleDudes · 03/09/2013 14:54

I have just had a letter asking if I want a nursery place for ds3 who has just turned 2.

I am a lone parent, I have been since very early on in my pregnacy with ds4. He is now 7 months.

In those 7 months, I haven't so much as had an hour alone. Not one. I have done every night feed, every bath time, every meal time. I have a shower with a toddler pulling at my leg and the baby sat watching in his bouncer.

I cannot wait for ds3 to spend some time in nursery, he will love having some playtime and I will love having some one to one time with ds4. although I would get down on my hands and knees and beg for just one hour completely alone

K8Middleton · 03/09/2013 14:57

Quite right hazeyjane. That was lazy paraphrasing on my part.

brdgrl · 03/09/2013 15:00

fourlittledudes, that's awful. I don't get much alone time at all because all my family lives away and we have no real support network here...but at least I'm able to get a shower and I'm able to get a bit of time to think even if it is just on the way to work.
If you live near me, I will take your kids on a playdate with my toddler. She is 3 and we love babies. :)

ReallyTired · 03/09/2013 15:04

Read this link and then you might understand the logic of giving "free childcare to certain under twos.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23931080

It is a bit of a scattergun approach as 99% of low income families are excellent parents. However it is cheap way of detecting child abuse reaching disadvantaged chidlren.

I can't blame the OP for feeling agrieved. I feel it would be better to give all two year olds 6 hours of free care. 15 hours a week is a lot for a child who has never been to nursery.

lljkk · 03/09/2013 15:18

Life is full of unfair .

What about the changes in childcare vouchers, the ones that families with SAHPS can (?could) access but rules are changing so both parents have to be at work to have the vouchers. What an uproar about that on MN. And I got pretty peeved because DH & I never had access to the voucher subsidy before or after the changes. That's unfair too. Like lots of things, just got to suck it up.

Bubbles1066 · 03/09/2013 15:23

My local nursery was handing out flyers saying free places for under 2s.... I got to excited but then saw the small print, you have to be on benefits, have special needs or earn less than £17,000 pa and claim WTC . So not us and we have to wait until 3. I do understand the logic behind it for the very disadvantaged or those with aditional needs but if I'm really honest I would love to put my daughter in nursery for 15 hours, I have no one to give me a break but at over £60 a week it's just not possible for us. I don't think income alone should be a criteria, rather those who need extra support for whatever reason who should get the provision early.

MotherofBear · 03/09/2013 15:23

Just for info (sorry, I was wrong about the 2.5 - that's the age my DS could have started pre-school, had I been able to afford it), this is from the Department of Education website:

From September 2013, around 130,000 2-year-olds are eligible for 570 hours per year of funded early education.

All 2-year-olds who are looked after by their local authority are eligible.

2-year-olds whose family receives one of the following are also eligible:
? income support
? income-based Jobseeker?s Allowance (JSA)
? income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
? support through part 6 of the Immigration and Asylum Act
? the guaranteed element of State Pension Credit
? Child Tax Credit (but not Working Tax Credit) and have an annual income not over £16,190
? the Working Tax Credit 4-week run on (the payment you get when you stop qualifying for Working Tax Credit)

strokey · 03/09/2013 15:31

WTF Really? Thats a joke. 2 year olds can be taken to playgroups every day of the week for nothing, or next to nothing.

What a total waste of money. So irresponsible types who have children without being able to provide for them now have a few hours of free childcare too?

Meanwhile, people who go out to work are having to fork out for childcare. Ridiculous.

cantsleep · 03/09/2013 15:32

I can sort of see why you are annoyed. My dd is three and has the 15 hours a week funded.

Recently her pre school sid they would be taaking 2 year olds from next year. Gret I thought and put down ds name (he is 17 months) hoping that once he is 2 I will get a bit of a rest but no, the places will be offered to children who live in certain postcode areas/been in care/parents on income support. I was relly disappointed and am just having to keep my fingers crossed that he does get aa place because I really need a few hours a week with all dcs at school or pre school.

YANBU (I think!)

Sirzy · 03/09/2013 15:35

Strokey - have you even bothered to read the thread? It isn't just about taking children to a "playgroup" it is about much more than that for children who are deemed to be in a vulnerable/at risk group.

KatyPutTheCuttleOn · 03/09/2013 15:39

Can I just point out that many people on a low income who are working are the people who are providing child care/health care/education for countless families up and down the country so bashing people who get help may mean you are bashing the very people who are help to look after or educate your children. Many of those people are on salaries that put them and their families below the poverty line so cut them so slack please.

Mumof3xx · 03/09/2013 15:40

It's not a case of "irresponsible types getting free childcare" it's a case of children who's needs may not be met for whatever reason in the home environment being given the opportunity for a better start

I have paid childcare for two children so far and will do for my third, she won't get a free place at 2 but I don't care. We don't need it. Other people do

Yes some of the parents might simply be lazy but that's not the child's fault is it

cantsleep · 03/09/2013 15:41

I had hoped the criteria included children with medical issues but was told by dd pre school that ds would not be a priority for a 2 y old place as they had been told very strictly it was been in care/IS/postcode area.

HeySoulSister · 03/09/2013 15:42

Ha ha strokey

Read the thread.... Or are you one of these 'non reading types'

ReallyTired · 03/09/2013 15:44

In our area the pre school places are being taken up by the two year olds and by the time a child gets to three there is nowhere with space to take a child who gets funding at three years old.

There are children who are not getting the chance to attend nursery because there is no nursery place when their three year old grant comes in.

The joys of a high birth rate and excessive immigrantion putting strain on local services.

Mumof3xx · 03/09/2013 15:44

Might I also point out that the free places are being increased again in 2014 so that more families will receive the free hours, but this will still not be any where near all families

brdgrl · 03/09/2013 15:45

So irresponsible types who have children without being able to provide for them now have a few hours of free childcare too?
And yet this thread has several posters who say that they don't qualify based on income, but would like 'extra support' or 'a break' from their kids. You could just as well say that parents who "need a break" from their kids shouldn't have had them. (Equally asinine and insensitive.)

Anyway (putting aside for the moment the fact that it is not childcare, it is educational intervention) - let's be 'practical'. If you want a mother to get a job, would it not be a bit easier for her to do so if she had a couple of child-free hours to try to get one?