I've come to think that anti-sleep training hysteria on here is alienating and potentially harmful.

[INeedThatForkOff]

Having read countless threads in which sleep training (and let's not be euphemistic - I mean controlled crying) is denounced as cruel and damaging, I've resisted it until now.

DD is 3.6 and DS is 10mo. I am on my knees with exhaustion and have to return to work. My mum is seriously ill and frankly it's all affecting my mental health.

I got myself a referral to the HV-run sleep clinic. The HVs are Millpond trained and although they often get slated on here I've never met a bad one in my area

DD is responding brilliantly to bribery a reward-based approach, but obviously DS is too little for that. Instead CC with intervals of 30 seconds to 20 mins was suggested, and it is transforming the quality of our family life already.

DS is napping in the day, and although I am well aware of the links between crying and its impact on neurological development, I am convinced that learning to sleep will far, far outweigh this.

He's only slept through once so far, but is staying in his cot and sleeping for longer and longer periods at night.

I'm so sad to have wasted my maternity leave on feeling so down and exhausted. I think perhaps the critics ought to consider the improvement in quality of life that sleep brings to the whole family. I really regret having heeded them for so long.

I understand where you are coming from OP, but I have to say I have had a very different experience when seeking advice on MN about CC.

I don't agree with CC but also understand the reasons why it can be necessary in a society where mothers are put under so much pressure and can be/feel very isolated with minimal support.

I received some heart warming support from MN's when I was concerned over whether or not I had 'damaged' my DD after a couple of nights of CC when she was only a couple of weeks old.

I do agree that many people, on MN and in RL, can be militant in voicing their disapproval of CC, but I have actually had more people make me feel like a bad mother for not using CC to get my DD into what they feel would be an appropriate routine.

Just wanted to drop in to agree with you OP, and add my story in case it is of use to anyone. MY LO is now just over 8 months.

About 3 weeks ago we decided it was time. I have been blessed with a delightfully happy baby who seldom cries and I was so scared I would lose my happy baby . But I genuinely believe the ability to go to sleep is a really important life skill.

However we (DH more than me to be honest) that LO felt sturdy enough and seemed to have progressed from genuinely upset crying whenever she needed to onto a variety of different cries such as 'whinge', 'grump', cuddles please' and 'OMG totally F'ing Hysterical what have you done to me Woman'.

My personal view was that boob to sleep and during the night was seriously not helping - whats the point of CC at 'bed time' if I then fed her 2 hours later (she fed every two hours still). So I stopped giving milk in the night but still gave cuddles and used a sort of pick up put down approach - she never cried for more than a few minutes before going back to sleep (which surprised me). After a few days of this she was waking much less, so we introduced a proper 'bed time' at 7.30 - story, boob, put down drowsy but awake. She cried, but not hysterical and less than I expected- the longest was 25 minutes with us popping in every few minutes. Day 2 about 10 minutes, then 5 for a couple of days and now?nothing.

She now goes down at 7.30 (or 8 if I am running late..she can't read the clock yet), one stroke of the face and say 'sleep time now' and she rolls over and goes to sleep. No upset or anything. Not what I expected having read the horrors of CC on here.

Sometimes she wakes up once in the night for a quick whinge - initially I went in for a cuddle and put her down again but it didn't seem to help, just prolonged her wakeful bit. If I leave her she rolls over and goes back to sleep within 2 mins so I now have a 5 minute rule - if she still whinges after 5 minutes she obviously really needs us so gets a cuddle.

If she ever does proper crying I am there like a rocket, and so far she is still delightfully happy :-)

I'm not judging anyone I would really love some advice though.

How do you get round the whole back to square one issue. Dd has always been a spirited child stubborn and clingy I tried gradual withdrawal and it was working but then she got a cold and I was back in comforting her. Started withdrawal again and she started teething so I was back in comforting again.

After months of this two steps forward two steps back approach I had had enough and gave up on it. She is now 2.5 and has just started sleeping through.

Dc2 is due soon which is why I'm asking, if I want to do cc with them I'd love some pointers.

5 minutes of crying would be fine. I get hysteria within 2 minutes. Proper wailing, gulping, sobbing which takes an hour to calm. Or, i can cuddle him for 5 minutes till he's back under having gone straight in.

Crying i can handle. Hysteria is counterproductive.

I totally agree with the OP and have often wanted to start a similar thread.

The anti-CC brigade talk about the harm that stress can cause the infant brain as if that stress can only come from being left to cry. What about the stress of having a mentally and physically ravaged mother due to sleep deprivation? Not many of us can ensure long term sleep deprivation without a negative impact on our health and emotionally stability. Chronic tiredness effects the family dynamic and the mother's parenting capability during the day time. I sleep trained my first two and will sleep train number three when he is old enough and I will do so safe in the knowledge that it is by far the lesser of two evils for our family.

We used CC for both our children.

My 3 yr old is a brilliant sleeper. Was a brill napper too. She goes down with out a fuss. Happily chatting to herself. 98% of the time she sleeps thru til at least 7:30.
9 month old goes down at night and for naps happy as anything. Self settles and can sleep til 7:30.
My girls are bright, happy and contented. They are secure and sociable.
Sleep training did us nothing but good.
I'm glad I listened to my instincts.

I have always believed in 'the whatever works for you' method. I was blessed with a good sleeper who was a bad settler. We tried CC but he just threw up within minutes of leaving him. Once he was asleep he was fine.
He ended up co-sleeping because I hurt my back when he was 7mnths and couldn't lower him into his cot. DH couldn't be bothered to get out of bed and do it. We were all very happy co-sleeping until he was 4.
No sleep deprivation. Everyone was happy.
He is now 8, sleeps in his own bed and settles himself within minutes. So no damage done.

Best advice I ever got from my midwife when dd1 was born was to put her down awake but happy and contented from the start. She was never left to cry but she also never got used to being fed to sleep etc. I may just have been very lucky but mine have all been good sleepers.

Agree OP. I sleep trained DD2 at 10 months using gradual retreat and it worked within 4 nights! I think a lot of people don't post about stuff because they think they won't get any support. The weaning police too get on my tits.

I'm one of those horrendous parents who put there child to bed and let them cry it out until they fell asleep.

He was already sleeping through the night from 5months, but didn't have the skills to put himself to sleep at night or for naps (feeding to sleep was no longer an option). I tried cc but it was taking forever and naps just weren't happening, so one day I put him down and ignored him, and he was asleep after 15mins of grizzling.

He still has the occasional bad day, but a kiss and cuddle after 30mins fixes that. Most nights I can just put him down, he snuggles up to his Ewan the Sheep (best buy ever) and he's gone.

He is definitely a happier child now he can settle himself for naps in the day.

I used controlled crying with my first child - who slept poorly as a baby. Yes it was tough but it worked. A much happier child who has slept brilliantly ever since. He was overtired and the crying reflected that.

My second child was not so easy. She slept well at first but since has had periods where she is less settled. Controlled crying wouldn't work - she has a different personality. Sitting by her bed and gradual retreat worked much better for her. Now a reward chart is helping with getting her to stay in bed

dc1 was hysterical the first night, less so the next night and absolutely fine by the end if the week.

if I hadn't done cc I actually think I might have harmed myself, not him but I definatly began thinking of injuring myself some way so I would be allowed to sleep. I dreamed if appendicitis!! that's what lack of sleep does, it makes you mad its torture.

he's 23 and fine. I fucking hate judge posters re cc.

The only thing that I will judge other posters on is corporal punishment. Pretty much anything else I'm in the "whatever works for you" camp. Personally, if I hadn't done a modest form of cc when DS was nearly 6 months old I would have gone loopy and never have got back to work (which was pretty essential to keeping a roof over our head). So YANBU and I'm glad you've found something that works for you and your family.

YANBU op at all, and have done the same with dd now 6. You have to do it for your own sanity, what good is an exhausted parent!

I totally agree OP the hysteria about this is totally over the top. Not all children will magically sleep through the night without some form of 'sleep training' or direction. The reality is this will have to happen at some point and IMO its best to do it when they are younger rather than waiting until they start school and still waking in the night. Trust your instincts as a mother and if it means you and your family are happier then how can it be bad.

I'm not sure that I have seen anti-sleep-training hysteria on MN. I've seen plenty of threads with people on both sides of the CC camp, and rarely have I seen support for CIO.

I've posted on quite a few threads about how successful CC was with our DD at about 14 months. My only regret was not doing it sooner (but I wouldn't do it before 6 months). We did increasing intervals of 1 min and never got beyond 6 min.

I think that provided the response you get has a variety of views expressed then you shouldn't feel alienated by those that are against sleep training.

Wow this thread is a revelation that so many people on mumsnet feel this way. I always felt incredibly guilty & like i was the only one that did CC sleep training!

Worked a treat for me & my DS, three nights and that was it. Also there is no real evidence that it is harmful but i'm just waiting for the scaremongers out there to start quoting increased risks of everything under the sun if you leave your baby to cry!

Surely someone is going to be unreasonable on this thread soon!!!

3 nights of CC at 18 months old (DS2). Wish I'd done it 6 months earlier and not had endure the depression that resulted from sleep deprivation

YANBU.

I ddid about two days of cc with my DD when she was about 8mo. She was a great sleeper from the start, but went through some sort of phase.

I know this may sound a bit hippy, but I think trying to understand why my DD was crying really helped. Obviously once hunger/dirty nappy were dismissed, there had to be another reason: scared of the dark? Scared of abandonment? Scared of being alone? Scared of her cot? Over tired? Once I figured out she was just scared of being left alone in a room (after a bit of trial and error with lighting and sitting quietly in her room), I decided that I would let her cry for 2 mins, go in and stroke her for 20 seconds and repeat at increasing intervals. She finally got the message after five goes the first night and three goes the second night that I would always be there, even if she fell asleep. She remains a great little sleeper now, a year on.

Both my girls were great sleepers but st one point I did do cc with both.

Both now at. 13 and 8 are well balanced and happy.

I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks. Sleep is important to brain development and I made sure they got it. I also taught them independence.

Yy to understanding why they were crying though. Dirty wet hungry must be fixed. Scared needs consoled.

Children do learn to sleep alone as they grow up anyway though - you don't have to teach them by letting them cry. If you choose to, of course that's up to you but it is a choice not a necessity.

Wrong chocolate, I would argue it is a necessity for some who need some sleep.

I simply don't get CC, everytime I went into comfort DD1 she just cried harder and longer. It simply didn't work.

DD2 was such a expert BFer and so good at keeping still that you just co slept with her. Also as she got older she was happy to go back to her bed after an hour or so. So you fed, dozed and put her in her cot. No trouble.

But of course, sleep training can be a life saver for parents with bad sleepers who are getting over tired and stressed.

DD1 is still, at 15 a total night owl, always has been. If she wants to stay awake she can. I'm guessing that's why CC simply didn't work.

I hate all of you. CC worked with DS when he started playing up at bedtimes. He also slept through from 8/9months without much intervention

Along comes DD who at the ripe old age of 21months still doesn't sleep through despite most methods of sleep training tried and failed