To ask for advice, cannot believe what my friend has just done.

[JakeBullet]

I am asking here because it is anonymous and I know the advice will be honest and frank!

My friend J has just moved house way from an abusive exH and in a new town. The house she has gone into was occupied by a tenant who has built up massive debts. My friend knows this as she is answering doors to bailiffs almost daily and having to show her tenancy agreement to prove that she isn't the debtor. My friend gets over anxious about things and has been opening post to keep on top of it and contacting companies to point out that the other tenant has moved.

My friend doesn't always think things through, she is agoraphobic with an anxiety and panic disorder plus severe depression for which she is having weekly psychotherapy. This move was supposed to be positive and on the whole it has been.

However, she came to see me in the past 24 hours with her current partner. While he was off seeing relative she told me that she had opened another letter which had all the previous tenant's bank details on so.......had been online and used them to buy an expensive mobile phone.


I have advised her that:

• this is illegal (she is fully aware of this)
  
• that if this comes to light she would be in serious trouble (she seems too confident that it won't come to light).
  *that what she has done is wrong (she honestly doesn't seem to care ).
  
  
  It doesn't help that one of her new neighbours apparently grows and sells cannabis and has offered to sell to her when she has tried so hard to come off it. He apparently has "a nice set up in the loft" and "plants growing well in the garden" plus "loads of solid" . The order for the phone took place after she had been smoking some apparently "good quality solid" and I think it has clouded her judgement at that point. I wish she hadn't told me though.
  My friend always says that "green" makes her paranoid but that the "solid" just keeps her mellow and relaxed. I don't smoke so I have no idea about cannabis.
  
  Now I am so honest it is untrue, I have never knowingly stolen anything (apart from a time when I discovered a pair of earrings in my shopping which were not on the receipt...even then I went back and paid for them).
  All this just sits uncomfortably with me but I don't know what else I can say or do. I don't feel I can report this....not given all my friend's mental health issues but I want her to decline the phone when it arrives and return it.
  
  Or does not reporting it make me awful?
  
  I cant do it though, she is fragile at the best and I have seen her in the depths of despair and suicidal over the past few weeks. I don't think she is thinking straight so any psychiatric nurses/doctors/experienced folk welcome with advice.
  
  I feel my only options are to report (cant do it) or ignore and hope for the best. ....or keep advising her to return the phone immediately hich is my preferred option.
  
  My friend feels that as the previous tenant is ignoring all mail and still apparently using the address to set up car insurances etc that nothing can be proved.
  
  Feel really upset that she has done this but cant tell anyone...only people here and ask advice.

[kmc1111]

Honestly if you still care about her I'd report her, because if she get's away with it this time she'll just continue on with it. She'll be caught anyway in the end but by then she may well be looking at serious jail time, whereas if she's caught now it won't completely fuck up her life.

On the other hand I'd think it completely understandable if you just wanted to cut her off and be done with the drama. She sounds like the kind of person who's always going to find herself in trouble and she clearly doesn't care about breaking the law, so she may well be a lost cause whatever you do.

BTW, even if she returned the phone/cancelled the order, she's still broken the law. Morally, the right thing to do would be to return, but from a legal standpoint the damage is already done.

[Arnie123]

please tell me she is not in custody of a child

[Ilovemyself]

SolidGoldBrass. "The mobile phone companies can take a loss"

What a great attitude. Because it is not a crime against a person no one suffers. Except, of course, the end customer with higher prices and higher insurance costs, and the shareholder.

Theft is not acceptable at all. Simple as.

[Onesleeptillwembley]

She's a skank. Why would you want a 'friend' like that? Get rid.

[JakeBullet]

We have been through a lot together but yes, our values are completely different. I have not had the mental health issues she has had in her time or the abuse she suffered as a child.

The cannabis farm person has a very disabled relative whom he cares for (very physically disabled) and who gets more pain relief from the cannabis than from Morphine....does that sound as though it could be correct?

Otherwise I would have no qualms about reporting the address....but the disabled relative lives there.

Anyway, I have worked off a lot of the annoyance and anger in the garden and the lawn is now immaculate. Going to ring Young Carers I think....will do it after I have had time to think about what to say.

Yes my friend has a child who is lovely and very well cared for (believe it or not), her child is also one of the most sensible children I have ever met.......too sensible maybe because of what she has witnessed in her young life.

[Arnie123]

Just read she has a child staying there. You need to put the child's welfare before any loyalty to your friend and phone social services. She is not fit to be a parent

[Arnie123]

Just to add in response to your last post I have bipolar and was severely abused as a child. However I don't smoke pot or steal phones. Sounds like you are making excuses for her

[KatyPutTheCuttleOn]

I'd talk to her and get her to cancel the phone and explain that you will have no choice but to report it if she doesn't.

[Arnie123]

Brilliant post Katy! I second that

[JakeBullet]

I don't want to make excuses for her, that is an insult to all of us who have been through crappy childhoods and or had mental health issues...I take the point of it not excusing things.

Yes if I re-read my OP I seem to be doing just that but I was so shocked and trying to understand/make some sense of it.

[KatyPutTheCuttleOn]

Thank you Arnie Unfortunately it might not be as simple as that for the OP but I hope she does manage to do it.

[LookAtTheTwain]

Just keep your beak out and steer clear from now on.

She'll have to sort herself out if/when the shit hits the fan.

There's no need for you to report anything. It will only make you feel guilty. You've given her good advice. She's an adult and will make her own decisions.

[LookAtTheTwain]

Smoking a joint on an evening doesn't make her a shit parent. Same as having a couple glasses of wine doesn't make a shit parent.

Leave the neighbours out of it. The have their own reasons for using the stuff.

[ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee]

Yes - people do get relief from various medical conditions using cannabis and I think it should be legalised for this use (I don't want to get into a debate about any of that). So, I don't blame him for growing enough for his ill relative BUT that's not what/all he's doing You don't need a nice set up in the loft and loads of plants in the garden to supply one ill relative and you wouldn't be supplying or telling your neighbours about it if that was what you were doing.

I wouldn't report him though - he's small fry.

If her DD is well looked after, I would just disengage from the friendship.

[jkklpu]

Do you really think she has done this ir is just trying to boast about it? Banks don't send letters containing all details necessary to make online purchases, eg with full card numbers + security codes or login/passwords. If she has, it would be very easily detectable, as others have pointed out.

[diaimchlo]

She will get caught, the phone would be delivered to her address and have to be signed for first, I would say that she has most probably taken out a DD to pay for it as there is way too much security when paying via debit/credit card. So her actions are totally traceable.

TBH honest I would not communicate with her again at all.

[kali110]

Feel for you op, hard situation to be stuck in. Sad that now shes dragged you into it.
If you think shes unwell and not acting herself any health professional you could speak to?
Phone companies can make a loss? Great example to give if you have kids! You can steal from them it doesn't matter, not sure they or the police will see it like that

[ravenAK]

She is almost inevitably going to get busted over the phone. Her best bet might be to refuse delivery of it when it turns up & hope it gets RTS & disappears into the mess of previous tenant's financial chaos.

She's got to stop opening mail not addressed to her. We bought a house previously in multiple occupancy & had years of debt collection letters. You just RTS, the agencies eventually ring you & you explain that no, you aren't Mr Michael Mouse or Mr Randy Therampant & have no idea of their current whereabouts. They're used to it.

[EBearhug]

I'd talk to her and get her to cancel the phone and explain that you will have no choice but to report it if she doesn't.

This.

[EBearhug]

And, as someone whose card has been fraudulently used by others to buy stuff - it's a lot of hassle for the card holder to sort out, even if she doesn't care about phone companies - but the bank will investigate and the chances of her not getting caught are very low.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Given the amount of ripping off customers, exploiting their staff and tax avoidance most mobile phone companies go in for, yes I think the fuckers can eat the loss in this case. I'm not advocating everyone to go out and steal a phone, but I'm more morally happy with the phone company taking a loss than with an individual being encouraged to grass up a vulnerable (if chaotic) friend.

[Misspixietrix]

Jake it sounds plausible but if Neighbour has a Farm I.highly doubt its for the Disabled Relatives Personal use Only. Some pay you between 2 to 3 grand to let them use your loft for growing. I know shes your friend but I would be seriously considering reporting it. The Phone. Theft obtained by Deception off the top of my head is the first thing I can think of regarding the stolen identity. It might be the short sharp shock she needs to reign in. Plus if shes 30miles away from you now she will probably just think its a neighbour. ~

[Misspixietrix]

^ second what Katy said actually..that sounds reasonable if you think she will listen to you ~

[JakeBullet]

She does listen to me and will take on board what I have said...even if she has given me a lot of bravado in replies. I hope I have planted the seed for her to think about things and to get a grip.

The bank details didn't include the card details etc, just account and sort code. That appears to have been enough for her to do this.

She is banking upon the previous tenant's affairs being in such a mess that it won't be noticed. Bailiffs are still calling almost daily so definitely a mess.

I have slept on it and am going to ring her today to point out that she is traceable and that if she is caught then her lovely fresh start will turn into a nightmare.

I DO want to keep me beak out (as someone advised on this thread) but I feel she has brought me into this and despite everything I am fond of her.

The stuff she has done in the past few days has disappointed me but doesn't take away from her kind personality. She isn't thinking straight and I might talk to her psychotherapist. I wont do that without talking to her first because I am honest with her and have been so far.

As for the neighbour......well he is growing the stuff in his garden, in the loft and producing God knows how much. There are children in that house too although how much they know of the growing I don't know.

[raisah]

Anonymous tip off about the weed and hopefully the sight of police vans outside her neighbours house might frighten her into cancelling the phone.