To expect my local coffee shop to let me in with a pram?

[Shockingundercrackers]

Will try to keep this brief. My local coffee shop owner has just refused me entry with a pram (not a massive silver cross call the midwife one, just a bugaboo style thing). He said he was busy (he wasn't, and although its a small place there were only two other customers inside) and that buggies had to be parked outside. I can see the logic of this, but a pram with a 5 week old sleeping baby in it isn't really a buggy is it? Or is it?

I should have remonstrated with the grumpy fecker of course, but it had taken me so long to get said infant out of the house and I was so hungry and tired I thought I might embarrass myself and start blubbing. I beat a hasty retreat.

I've been fuming ever since of course. AIBU?

It depends on the size of the coffee shop I guess, Ive never had a problem with a pram, I was on a bus in Edinburgh with a pram a few weeks back, they have 2 free spaces for them. If those spaces are taken you wait for the next bus.

Yabu, too many parents have no common sense or consideration for others when they have a buggy

I would find another coffee shop ~ wouldn't want to sit somewhere so unwelcoming ~ go somewhere else that will welcome you and your baby. Also, I wouldn't take a sleeping baby out of a pram /leave pram unattended outside.

I can appreciate small shops can't have prams taking up all the space thou. Just have to accept some places will be out of bounds with a pram unfortunately and find yourself somewhere new

Thing is it is utterly shit when it happens to us/me

When it happens to someone else it is understandable but when we are selfs are refused entry with a pram it is a pain in the arse.

You don't really want to leave the pram outside and try and hold a baby with one arm and drink a coffee and eat cake with the other. It is nice to actually operate as a mum with two arms once in a while.

Turniptwirl is right though so many pushchair users are inept as operating and parking these objects, I was trying to get out of the double doors at boots the other day in covent garden - a lady had parked her buggy right slap bang in the middle of the doors and as the buggy had bags on each side there was no way any one could get past the buggy... I have also not been able to get into local cafe on more than one occasion as there was a buggy blocking the way entirely at the first table, then the customer made a big fuss of moving the buggy each time a new customer wanted to enter and sit down at another table.

We are in a recession still and people will be happy to post advise on trip advisor OP I hope you do leave a report on trip advisor of how you were treated so others know this isn't a buggy friendly coffee shop and then can avoid this situation - make it clear and don't give scores for food or drink just the fact you didn't want to wake a 5 week baby and take them out the pram or leave outside. Businesses are silly to turn away paying customers when it is quite. It would have been far better for him to welcome you in and he could have mentioned when the cafe is busy he gets people to leave prams outside - then you would have known for another time why there was a difference if the place was busy.

I do think it is down tot he cafe owner to make customers feel comfortable with their rules as it is their trade that will suffer otherwise and the onus shoudl be on the owner to make sure the customer is comfortable, making signs- at busy times we regret prams are difficult to squeeze in our small cafe please ask and we will try and help. Or that type of thing

When DD1 was a newborn I lived somewhere that was very baby friendly - most cafes welcomed/tolerated babies and their buggies. One didn't and got a complete pasting on the local forum.

I've recently had DD2 and now living in another town. Cafes far less set up for buggies and I've come to accept that my choices are more restricted. I usually end up in Neros as it is huge and easy.

Friggin, will there be special parking spaces for our tit barrows?

I do agree that the designer pram trend is a pain for the general public. If people went out and about with more modest strollers it would be a lot less oppressive when they appear en masse.

YABU because they can't create space if it isn't there ... it is probably fire regs. But I would have been upset too and what a shame to lose your custom. A Bugaboo is small - probably smaller than most buggies, I'd say. I think this is the problem with local smallish coffee shops, although I would rather go to these than the chains.

My pram was HUGE. I loved it

There are/were 3 coffee shops local to where I live. One is genuinely to small for prams. The man who owns it has a toddler and does his best but after 1 or 2 prams are in at lunchtime he has to turn others away. The other one has lots of room and welcomes anybody. The third had plenty of room but actively discouraged push chairs with tutting and sometimes out right refusal.

The third one closed recently, I think that must have been part of the reason. If you're in a suburban area open in the daytime Mums and pensioners will be your core business.

Artex! Quite right! FWIW I Don't think YABU. As others have said just take your custom to Costa elsewhere in Future ~

Boffin - I've said for a long time, there's money to be made in a stroller that's lightweight, rear facing, suitable for newborn and not requiring a degree in engineering to fold, and folds in one piece (and yes, I know the bugaboo bee is basically that, but it's soooo much much expensive than the McClarens that people mean when they say 'stroller', if you could make one around the same price as a McClaren it would be v popular).

Where do all these "helpful" posters live where they'd happily suggest leaving the pram outside? You do know how much these things are worth these days right? I feel uncomfortable leaving mine anywhere I can't see it.

And the person who suggested putting a 5 week old in a highchair, I guess you've never been anywhere near a newborn? What on earth?!

OP - fwiw there have been some really unnecessary replies here. I remember how shit the world seems with a 5 week old when all you want is a semblance of a normal day like you described. I hope you find somewhere local that is pram-suitable. Any nice big friendly pubs nearby?

firstly, apologies for posting in haste and running earlier, I decided that I really did have to do some work this afternoon after all.

My post, whilst mimicing MrsDV's, was badly phrased - I know your post wasn't mean spirited MrsDV, but it does make me sigh a bit that you just know that on threads like this people will come out of the woodwork to say, 'well, we didn't have this so why should you' kind of thing (I know that's not exactly what you said). And I just feel it would be more generous-spirited to say, 'wow, isn't it great the changes that have happened to make parents' lives a bit easier', be it changing facilities/P&C parking spaces/room on buses where you can park your pram (if not needed by a wheelchair, of course). This is what my mum always says when's she's out and about with me and DD, she thinks it's great, and I wish I didn't have to feel she was in a minority thinking that.

Anything that means a mum suffering PND or is lonely or anxious or shy can get out and about is surely a good thing, isn't it?

And I'm certainly not ageist, I'm probably older than many of the mums on here with older DC.

Any, apologies again for returning so late to the party.

I don't think you are being unreasonable OP. Don't get the "it's his prerogative" stuff on this thread. He wouldn't legally be allowed to refuse entry to a person with guide dog or a wheelchair or mobility carriage - presumably they would be just as annoying and inconvenient to everyone else in the cafe. Would he tell a businessman with a large suitcase to park it outside? Or tell an elderly person to leave their stick or wheeled shopping basket? Why is a pram considered fair game? What about a disabled mother with a pram, does she get to bring it in or not?

Why isn't it discriminatory of him to ban prams? There are lots of things business owners are not allowed to do as "their prerogative", no matter how much they might like to. Don't really get why people think it's okay for small business owners to act like mini autocrats because it's "their business". It's not legally okay for the business owner to refuse service to particular categories of people just because he doesn't like them, or refuse to let someone breastfeed, or any number of other things.

(And NB there are lots of people who can't just use a sling - I have back problems which mean I can't wear one at all - what are people supposed to do then?)

So tell me why it's okay to discriminate against a mother with a pram but not against someone with a wheelchair?

'So tell me why it's okay to discriminate against a mother with a pram but not against someone with a wheelchair?'

Because you can chose not to use a pram, or to get a folding buggy and fold it up. A person in a wheelchair can't chose to just fold up their wheelchair, not use it and walk about as they wish. Is it that hard to understand?

Because it's not a disability to have a baby?

So tell me why it's okay to discriminate against a mother with a pram but not against someone with a wheelchair?

FFS. Seriously?!

because a person in a wheelchair has no choice but to use his or her chair.

MrsDV - I don't know. The bus spaces of course were campaigned for by disability groups, and so it's a handy aside that they can be used by buggies. In fact, in the 3 years of using London Transport with a buggy (a Bee, chosen because it's so narrow, and also you can push the handle right in so it doesn't stick out into the aisle), I've never had to move for a wheelchair (in fact, the only time I've seen a wheelchair user on public transport was during the paralympics), and only a couple of times have there been more buggies than space - though of course it's not such a problem in London as there's more buses, so if you have to wait or get off it's not such a big deal, I can imagine if you only have a bus ever half hour it's an utter drag.

P&C parking - well, the supermarkets shouldn't have put them so close to the shop, if they were at the back you'd get far fewer people using them who 'shouldn't'. But given that cars have got wider but spaces haven't, they are extremely useful. I've often parked in a non-P&C space and come back to find 2 mahoosive vehicles on either side of my weeny 3-door car, rendering it nigh-on impossible to get DD, or indeed myself fat arse back in the car, especially if DD was in her car seat. Not the end of the world, of course, but these things can sometimes tip you over the edge!