To think a salary equivalent to £40k p.a. Is not sufficient for...

[CruCru]

...the sort of hours that banking interns seem to put in (according to the Times). It sounds hellish.

It is also completely unreasonable to expect interns to work for free - it means only those with wealthy parents can afford to get this sort of experience.

That's how they sort those with the right background, are prepared to not have a life, and are so tired/get so competitive that lose billions in one click when nobody's watching.

How is it with young doctors these days?

Well they are interns, it's not supposed to be a proper salary and they don't have time to spend it, do they. The conditions they work in are a separate issue. If they're unacceptable and dangerous, deal with that. Compensating for it with money won't bring anyone back from the dead, will it.

Otherwise, a training stipend equal to the average family income, more than 150% of the average individual wage, sounds pretty good actually!

Dunno, I don't know any doctors I think (apart from my GP).

Interns aren't supposed to be paid full salary. £40,000 a year is bloody good going for a 21 year old. There's no point moaning about the decent pay if it's the hours/stress you have a problem with, though.

There was an article a few weeks ago about an American intern working in London who died after doing ridiculous hours basically working through the night it does sound awful there's so much pressure on them

I don't think that the two are related. $40K pa equivalent for an intern is very very good pay indeed especially given that most are unpaid or paid a pittance (not that that is right, but being an intern is about getting experience/ a leg up, not a proper job).

Working excessive hours is never good in any field, but again not particularly unusual for some very high pressure fields. At least interns are very short term positions not lifelong commitments. Most young people are able to stay up for significant amounts of time partying / studying so I suspect that there was more going on for the poor chap that died.

I think that at least a part of the issue is the huge competition for the real job that is being dangled in front of interns - I imagine they think what's a few weeks of working incredibly hard worth if you then get a very high status job with the prospect of earning potentially huge amounts of money (plus bonuses that most people only dream of)?

It's not just banking, all interns get a rough deal. Some of the stories I could tell you about those who have worked with top designers, would make your hair curl!

Obviously, those of us who don't want to pat them can't read the times, so I don't know exactly what the article is about, but in what way is a salary that many experienced professionals don't even get, working for free?

pat = pay.

I don't particularly want to pat anything murdoch owned, either, tbh.

Try Nursing!! Peoples lives are in the balance and the starting salary is half as much.

Banking is a lifestyle and the only way people succeed is by selling their souls putting the hours in.

Its a stage where they sort the wheat from the chaff ie they make it as hard as possible to find out who will thrive in that environment under that sort of pressure, and behave the way they want them to. They do the same with trainee solicitors, except they get paid a lot less than 40k pa.

The hours are a seperate issue, but the money is absolutely fine for a young single person who spends no real time at home, doesn't get to spend any time going out, and probably gets to eat half their meals for free (more if you scrounge the staff kitchens shamelessly). It's way over minimum wage, or even London Living Wage rate for the hours involved.

I interviewed for one of these jobs decades ago - the previous incumbent told me that he had worked 8 til 8 "unless they were busy" but that at the age of 23 he'd put down a chunky deposit on his first flat. It wasn't for me, but the people who do fancy it are not particularly high on my sympathy list.

spat my coffee out @ you feeling sorry for somebody getting 40k a year as an intern and the thing is you are serious, and so very worried how they will manage

The money is shitloads. I'm a nurse, my mate is a paramedic, all the other nee naws, there you'll find 70 hour weeks for £21grand. Same for junior doctors, they only get 20odd grand when they start. Teachers, that's a full on job, stupid hours to start with. Solicitors. People doing worthwhile things after years of training, huge responsibilities. There will be plenty of others I haven't mentioned.

Not all of those professions have much earning potential either - £40grand in nursing and you're getting to the top of your game.

A young mans death is tragic but there's no need to cry for the 40 grand interns ffs! Get real. If they don't like it they can stop chasing money and do something else.

I do agree with you about unpaid internships though. Nobody I know could do one, gotta work to live especially in London. The will is there but the means are not for a couple of friends with excellent arts degrees - they now do public sector stuff or teaching.

Erm...different sector but I'm a chartered structural engineer, having done a 5year degree and over 7yrs in practice, opt out of working time directive is compulsory and overtime is the norm but unpaid, if I screw up then buildings fall down....and I'd love to be on £40k.

It's not right that people are working such long hours,but there's obviously enough of a carrot for them to do it...

You're kidding on the 40K right? I agree with you on the hours and pressure though, it does sound inhumane.

I'm about to start as a student nurse. We'll have 40 contact hours per week. On top of that I'll have to complete reflective accounts of work, assignments, study for exams and hold down a job to support my family. That will add up to a lot of hours. When I qualify the my local health board will probably have extended it's intern scheme which means I'll have to work for 1 to 2 years for free before I can be considered for any job. That will officially be 37.5hrs per week. Add on the times when you can't get away on time and the paid job you'll need so you can still eat. How many hours do you think that will end up doing? When I eventually get a paid job I can expect 21K.

It's not really about the money though, is it? It's about getting a foot in door, impressing the right people who might get you a job when you graduate. And to do that, you're expected to put in crazy hours and show dedication to improving the firm's profits over anything else.

I don't feel in the slightest bit sorry for them. I couldn't do it, but that's why I'm not looking for a job in the city. They would know full well what it entails before they even applied. And 40K's alright, most of them live in cheap(er) student accommodation for the three/four months they do this over the summer.

mrsjay - did you really physically spit your coffee out? What did you hit?

If someone works 100 hour weeks then, assuming they work 48 weeks a year, £40k p.a. Is equivalent to about £8.30 an hour. That doesn't seem like a lot for somewhere like Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley.

As others have said lots of careers require long hours to get where you want to be. The young man who died had epilepsy.

Can't think why anyone would agree to such onerous terms!

Much better to be a shit-shoveller for 12k a year, of course.

Much better to be a shit-shoveller for 12k a year, of course Absoblimming lootly!!! :)

I mean this kindly, but are you out of your mind, OP?

They aren't worth £8.30. They're students. They know, and can do, fuck all, as a general rule. The firms cannot generally charge for the "work" they produce.

I suspect the positions would still all be fought for tooth and nail if they were unpaid.

We should be praising those firms which do still pay interns a fair wage (which this is, with bells on).

Absoblimming lootly!!!

Love it. Real English grammar, that.