To think a salary equivalent to £40k p.a. Is not sufficient for...

[CruCru]

...the sort of hours that banking interns seem to put in (according to the Times). It sounds hellish.

It is also completely unreasonable to expect interns to work for free - it means only those with wealthy parents can afford to get this sort of experience.

Like someone pointed out up thread, I don't think it makes sense to see that salary as X per hour, or even take into account the number of hours they work.

It's an investment they're making in their (very immediate) future and unfortunately Investment Banking can have a culture of presenteeism, especially if you're a lowly first year analyst.

So you don't clock watch and get paid handsomely for working under pressure and having very little free time. Whether they're overpaid or not, is a whole different kettle of fish.

I know roughly how much each IB pays in bonuses at different levels and I have no concerns about their employees' hours of work.

I can't remember the last time I had a "start time" or a "finish time" at work; if I or any of my colleagues feel like going to the gym at lunchtime for 3 hours or need to go to the doctor in the middle of the day, we just go and no one would dream of saying anything.

But the flip side is my job has always been results' orientated so they don't have to control our time; we have to deliver results (and revenue) or we're sacked. So we could be working 80 hour weeks or entertaining clients until 5am and have a meeting booked for 7am.

Having said that, I'm sure that plenty of people can sleep easy at night knowing that they'll have a job next quarter and often we don't have that security. Swings and roundabouts.

It's not about the pay, it's about the hours.

Expecting anyone to work long hours isn't on, no matter how much they get paid. Humans can only function properly if they get sufficient rest.

Lynette don't worry - most of the time they're not actually working

Empress77 - senior doctors get less than £40pa? Really?

Xiaozhu, wanted to say as you sound a bit down, you can cash in your experience and move into something less stressful. Look at what the women that didn't make it in your firm are doing now, probably give you some interesting ideas. Remember you are accumulating experience and you can cash it in later for a less exhausting job. It is better to do the hard stuff in your 20s when you don't have so many obligations. This bank intern stuff/long hours for it/law etc was the same 15 years ago as it is now. I heard lots of bragging stories about people working 40 days straight, around the clock for 3 days etc. they have a choice.

I interned at a similar firm 10 years ago. Did similar hours (mind you I do similar now in law) and was on 27k. I remember thinking it was loads at the time. It is loads!

Yummy -plenty of people have to live in London on under 40grand!!! Who do you think serves you in shops or teaches or cares or cleans etc!!

I might hide this. I really hope my children aren't as spoilt and entitled as xia is. I'd like them to have well paid jobs but to be on that in your early twenties and not realise and appreciate how privileged that is is just shocking.

Yabvu.

Two things:

We do not generally work those hours - unless it's a crisis.

No one I know has started on a salary of £65k+ at associate level. Scale your sights way down.

I say both of those things as someone who is regarded as a high flyer at BAML, and who is married to one at the same bank.

I have a financial services background.

When I started out, I bought my first house the week I started work. I was earning £8k and the house (Manchester 2-up, 2-down) cost £15.5k. That same house still costs £15.5k but the starting salary in the same firm for the same job (big4) is now more than £35k.

And when I moved into investment banking in the city, I and my colleague were 2 of only 15 female bond traders in the whole of the city that I knew of (and we kept tabs), interns were always unpaid so only ever came from rich families, it was rare for people like me (state educated, wrong accent, wrong class) to get into banking, the guys we worked with on the desks ran books on when we had our periods, and no matter how good you were your face no longer fitted once you hit 32-35ish.

I am really really struggling to buy into the woe is me attitude some of the people are displaying. At least in banking it is a true meritocracy - you get paid for performance, end of. The long hours are a bummer (I had to switch out of front office in my mid-40s because I couldn't manage that and kids), but there is plenty of opportunity to switch to well-paid lower stress work once you've earned your spurs and become an expert on what you do. I thank my lucky stars to have had the opportunities I've had, to have travelled the world business-class all the way and to still be getting well paid even now. I cannot imagine another industry that allows unconnected people such opportunities, and I think the current crop of interns/trainees have never had it so good, and will not for a minute look back and feel hard-done-by.

I earn just over 40K. I had to pass 9 professional exams to earn that however and in my specialisation I am well paid compared to some equally qualified people who work in other organisations. I work a standard week of 37 hours and although I often put in many more hours, usually from home, it is never more than 60.

I've no idea about banking interns but there is no way on earth I would trust the opinion of someone who had worked 100 hours in a week. Tiredness dulls more than the senses and often they are the last to realise it. I am thankful that my organisation does not encourage such madness. They promote work/life balance and they mean it. Happy staff equals productive staff.

I worked doing the kind of job they are doing in the mid 90s for about £8000 per annum when I was 16. I quit after about 7 months as I couldn't get motivated about simply making money and not actually 'doing' anything.

YABU because 40k is the absolute minimum they will ever make, ever. The internship will lead to a job and that job will be paid absolute fortunes. Yes, it's high stress, but the money more than makes up for it (unless/until you burn out). Lawyers are badly paid in comparison.

How is a person meant to maintain accuracy if they work continuously throughout the night a few days in a row? No wonder the banking industry has exploded in the way it has.

I have to tell you again that they are not on their feet continuously working with no opportunity for breaks. I work in an IB and I watch these people. even the actual traders spend a large amount of the day dicking around - watching sports, making cups of tea, gambling, surfing the web, chatting, looking atvrightmove etc They all have 3 or 4 screens and at any given time one is virtually always on bbc news are a football site. things may get busy in crisis times or for deadlines but the day to day reality is much like any office job. I would be far, far more worried about doctors and nurses who make life or death decisions when tushwd and under-resourced.

I think lawyers work longer hours than bankers anyway - the markets are only open for defined periods remember.

rushed.

Isatdownandwept "And when I moved into investment banking in the city, I and my colleague were 2 of only 15 female bond traders in the whole of the city that I knew of (and we kept tabs), interns were always unpaid so only ever came from rich families, it was rare for people like me (state educated, wrong accent, wrong class) to get into banking, the guys we worked with on the desks ran books on when we had our periods, and no matter how good you were your face no longer fitted once you hit 32-35ish."

Doesn't sound much like " true meritocracy"!

You can buy a 2 up 2 down in Manchester for £15,500?

?

Duh. That's what it was like 20 years ago. That's the whole bloody point of my post - now it's a damn sight better than it ever was, and I can't believe people moan about it.

Minty. 20 lindgard st sk5 6ab terrace, sold may 2013 £15,000. There's another dozen or so sold in last yr at less than £20k

Wow, enormous price differences on Lingard Street. When I googled I came up with this list where there are plenty at £70,000+. And in a road where all the houses are presumably similar sized 2 bed terraces.

No I absolutely do NOT for the good reasons mentioned.

There are so many people you actually have it tough, but this type of person comes very far down the list!

Im using a very overused word, but many graduates have a massively 'entitled' attitude and internships / long probation periods are the best way of seeing through that to the actual value of the grads contribution. It's time consuming and of little value to our company in terms of the work they actually do, it's much more valuable for them, giving them an insight into the world of work, the reality of the industry and immersion in the life so they can quickly pick up skills they need to be a valuable employee and also decide whether they want to work in the industry.

Many many jobs if you worked them out per hour sound alot less cool than on the surface... That's pretty much all professions so maybe if someone wants a 'per hr' job they should get one that pays per hour? It may be a surprise but it's not just the interns that do long hours / short or no lunch 'hr' etc...

'I might hide this. I really hope my children aren't as spoilt and entitled as xia is. I'd like them to have well paid jobs but to be on that in your early twenties and not realise and appreciate how privileged that is is just shocking.'

How insulting: I am not spoilt or entitled. I worked bloody hard to get where I am, a hell of a lot harder than most of my peers. I am simply disappointed that I've found it's not all it's cracked up to be. Are people not listening to me when I say 40k doesn't work out as that much at the end of the month because of the amount of debt I'm in? Or are they just reading the headline salary and not looking any further? I do not 'appreciate' it because I am putting in the hours and not getting the return! You don't feel very privileged when you're working 100 hour weeks and still eating Tesco Value baked beans at the end of the month.

I would advise you to encourage your children to do something that makes them happy, not to strive for a supposedly 'well-paid' job that gets them into loads of debt and makes them miserable.

Choos123 - yes I will sack it in one day. But as another poster said, it's a job, plus I've invested too much not to continue for a bit longer. And right now my circumstances just do not allow for a change in career.

Xiaozhu do you think it will be worth it when your salary increases? And when it keeps going up.