To think if you're a fan of the bedroom tax

[NicholasTeakozy]

That means you are at best a spunktrumpet and at worst a cunt. short video and see what it's doing.

YANBU

Sob stories really infuriates me. I posted back in April when the bedroom tax was first introduced, about a member of my family who is disabled. She was housed in a 2 bed council flat. She got the flat because she has specific needs and would not be able to either move or manage maintenance of a property.

How can it be right that one of the most vulnerable people, who already struggles everyday with her disability, is made to pay a tax on a bedroom that (a) she didn't want; (b) can't now afford; and (c) has no choice over because there are no 1 bed flats available.

And, that's what's so absurd about this tax - in the last quarter the number of buy-to-let mortgages has shot up. Demand for private rentals means rental property is suddenly a very lucrative investment again. Where's the demand coming from? Yeah, that's right..... housing benefit claimants who are trying to move to avoid the bedroom tax. So housing benefit is up and so, of course, is the taxpayer's bill. So that worked didn't it IDM????

I will never EVER vote Tory or Lib Dem.

So, after all the excuses reasons why people are happy to complain about it rather than getting involved...how many of you can honestly say you've even written to your local councillor?

I used to chat to my local councillor every now and again but never wrote to him.

My ex has had a few phone conversations with our MP about some issues.

If I had an issue with something to do with the local council I would go to the monthly meeting up the road.

You know, a policy such as this has been developed and put into effect across such a wide terrain, that it is extraordinarily naïve to think that simply becoming a local councillor will have a great deal of effect.

It is genuinely the case that you need widespread and disparate opposition to effect change with something like this. And that opposition needs to be across a number of locales: media (and there are many different forms of this); parliamentary representation; policy-making, to name but three.

(Suddenly realised the truth of Foucault's image of the net when conceptualising modern power. But realises it doesn't go far enough in defining the different "strata" (for want of a better word) across which that net has nodular points).

thanks Jolleigh but don't expect to get an answer. I am just off out to get my flock in apparently.

Youthecat - your councillor can do much more if those who aren't happy put their views in writing. They're busy people too and won't be able to tally up numbers and opinions if everything is verbal.

I think it would be quite silly to think that: raising awareness via mumsnet (which has a larger reach than some newspapers); fine-tuning the elements of a counter-argument; fashioning a discourse of opposition; swapping stories; communicating the volume of dissenting opinion is "doing nothing".

I, personally, think it counts as "politics". But I am a namby-pamby ex-humanities student. So what do I know?

I shall consider that should I ever have to put forward a complaint.

thecatfromjapan - yes of course you need widespread and disparate opposition but you also need people with real life experiences to be in places where they can effect change. its not true at all to say local councillors can not have an effect. they are the first port of call for all planning applications. the bottom up approach to opposition really works. I don't belong to a political party and I never will but I can get in there once a month and have my say and I can talk to my neighbours about what they care about. change starts with the individual.

It's worth doing even if your councillor agrees with you. It gives them what they need to take it further.

I am in temp housing after going through the homeless system and I don't think this is a good idea on any level.

Private renting just wasn't an option for us. close to 300 phone calls and not one agent would let us view a property once the words housing benefit left my mouth.

My mother is in a 3 bed property and disabled. She needs to go to sheltered housing but the waiting list is over 18 months long. Luckily she won't get charged but this shows you that it isn't always people just wanting to hang onto their large house.

And as for the notion that we should get involved in campaigning to change this....... I contacted 27 local politicians directly involved in the housing situation in my city regarding this and the dire joke that is the homeless system. 3 replied. One of those replies was an automated "on holiday" thing and they never did reply once they were back. One of the replies was to tell me that I was wrong and that the homeless system didn't work like that (er...right. Maybe explain that to the council staff who had told me to get lost until eviction day then....) She simply had no idea how it was being run and she was on the city housing committee. There really is so little that can be done about this when no one is willing to listen.

These schemes are dreamt up with absolutely no regard for the real people who will suffer them. There are so many different ways in which a similar system could have been implemented which would have actually worked.

LAs have no smaller properties to move people into.

How can this be a money saving exercise when every single independent report has proven it will cost LAs more because people will go to private housing at a cost 2 - sometimes 3 times higher then social rents?

Having said all of the above - and I do man it - I have to say that I have enormous respect for those who do become councillors. It's hard work. and the people I know who are doing it have a great deal of integrity.

I'd feel very bad if I hadn't made this point.

too right jolleigh. how many letters of support has Cameron had for this policy? write to your mp and ask them to table this as a question that would cause a stir. why catfromjapan do you think I value something less just because I am putting a counter argument? of course MN is important. why do the political parties put so much time and effort in to undercover stories on it if it wasn't. why the use of the word namby pamby and why should I think you know less than me just because we have a different opinion.

YABU.

There's no such thing as 'bedroom tax'.

Typical left-wing bollocks propaganda.

The OP of this thread has had the same name for a long time.

So go on email mnhq.

Nice summary ShellyBobs

Again worth a mention that labour have made it clear that despite all their objections, they have absolutely no intention of reversing this policy. When it comes down to the gritty, both parties agree the best way forward is to run with this.

Odd that this apparently very needed reform costs more to administer than it will save.

Odd that if its so important the three largest groups of under occupiers are totally exempt from it.

Odd that the group of people most effected by the change are those already disadvantaged by disability.

talkin did you know that instead of re designating bedrooms as other living spaces to save tenants money many LA's are re designating other living spaces as bedrooms so dining rooms that have a doorway (so a room as opposed to one on the end of a long living room) are now being classed as bedrooms so it costs the tenant more money.

What ever you want to call it this policy has totally destroyed my village and those around us. The UK is not a one size fits all place.

In my area the only one beds are very few, right in the (small) city centre and cost way more than LHA will even consider for a family home as they're 'luxury' lets. Two beds are also pretty thin on the ground. The vast majority are three rooms plus as that is what the council built.

Up here there are no smaller homes, there are no jobs and rent arrears are soaring. Private owners have moved for work, to share with family or to cheap council homes and are letting out 3 beds at the 2 bed LHA rate to get tenants. But these rates are still £100 PCM higher than the council rents. The council homes are empty and more money is being paid out in housing benefit, no homes have been freed up and no one is benefitting.

But, the tenant loses security of tenure, many can't afford to move in the first place. Landlords are stopping paying their mortgages when they realise it'll take years to clear negative equity and the first the tenant hears is the eviction notice, get evicted, get housed, end up paying the underoccupier tax as the council has no smaller homes to offer! Other LL's just don't bother with upkeep and homes are increasingly dilapidated with poor, expensive heating such as coal and inadequate insulation.

Lets not forget that it is an increasing disincentive to work as you now need to earn more to be in the same level.

I'm sure plenty will come on and squeal as to how they can just get a job. Come to the agencies and industries that hand out shit work on a daily basis and see how early they line up daily to only be turned away again. When 10% are unemployed just getting a job isn't easy. You can't spout that Eastern Europeans come and find jobs either, there are very few EE as there are NO JOBS.

It is heartbreaking here and I look at the children and young adults and wonder what chance they have.

The worst part is that the prosperous South would be a fucking third world country without the North. We have the coal, we grafted, we gave the world the industrial revolution. All the wealth and power was built in the North, yet we've been shafted and many in the South feel we should be grateful for the crumbs they offer after they trashed the economy. Thanks a bunch.

blimey usualsuspect where did that come from? do you know Nicholas? not a squeak since the original post. is that not odd? sock which LA's are doing this? name and shame them please.

Why don't the apologists for this extra charge respond to posts like the one by Charlie who has firsthand experience of how it works in practice?

Why is it odd? Maybe she/he is busy doing something else?

Does it matter if its referred to as the bedroom tax?

Its become a widely used name for it when you say it everybody knows what you mean they all understand what your talking about.

Its a bit of a pain in the arse to keep typing under occupancy housing benefit reduction charge and when you say that to many people you come into contact with you get a blank look and then end up saying bedroom tax then they understand.

The vast majority of organisations who assist with benefit and housing matters refer to it as that usually with its full name followed by more commonly known as the bedroom tax.

Fine its not an actual tax, we all know that but getting wound up and focusing your arguement on how people refer to it makes you look,well a bit uninformed. If you pro then fine say why you are rather than just making yourself look like you just want to ridicule people for using a well known easily understood nickname for it.

Sometimes real life has a horrible way of getting in the way of the internet.