To think if you're a fan of the bedroom tax

[NicholasTeakozy]

That means you are at best a spunktrumpet and at worst a cunt. short video and see what it's doing.

Bedroom tax doesn't apply to private rented accomadation, local housing allowance does and that will be less for fewer bedrooms

Yes I do sound cold. But I've argued this to death and the fact is, nobody on either side changes their minds.

It's a controversial policy and as such there are some people who truly get the shitty end of the stick. And for those people I'm as sorry as I can be. But there are then a hell of a lot of people who are arguing simply because they don't like it.

In my area its a disaster - there are a huge shortage of 1 bedroom homes and a huge amount of people stuck in bigger homes forced to pay, even if they want to move they cant. When people in specially adapted homes (that have had a lot of money spent on them) are now threatened with eviction, and then would have to be housed somewhere else suitable for their needs and their original house would have to have money spent to reverse the adaptations, well there has to be something far wrong.

Well said mummymeister.

I'm arguing because it was shockingly, badly implemented, with very little thought or planning as to how it would work (which it doesn't).

I know, expat - that's what makes it so ill-thought-out.

''There are people arguing simply because they don't like it?''

Um. Yes. I don't like it. It's a shitty policy in theory and practice. That is why I don't like it and why I then argue against it.

Youthecat - as a previous poster has said...if you don't like how it was implemented, taking to mumsnet full of piss and vinegar won't do anything. Get involved in politics and you may even hear a few things that help you have a clearer view of the 'why' behind it all.

Waffly, youthecat, Nicholas - elections for councils in 2 maybe 3 years time in your area? download the forms from your council website only need a proposer and a seconder.

I already have a very clear view of the reasons behind it, thanks.

Why? We can't all be local councillors, can we? Better to make an informed decision and use my vote.

... but you still wont say why you aren't involved in local politics youthecat or why you wont stand for your local town, parish, district or county council so that instead of moaning about something there is a danger that you could actually end up doing some good for your local community - the one you care so much about.

You won't have seen those stories because it hasn't happened.

If you Google "Oldham bedroom tax suicide" you'll see that someone threatened to commit suicide a month ago, not that they actually did as stated in the video.

Youthecat that is a pathetic response. no we cant all be local councillors but you could be. all areas of the country are crying out for articulate interested and in touch people with clear and definite views to stand on the local council. it takes a getting up off your computer screen and one meeting a month for a couple of hours with some reading and community engagement in between. no it is absolutely and most definitely not better to make an informed decision and use your vote. then you are only voting on other peoples ideas, views and principles rather than getting stuck in and speaking about your own. why is David Cameron prime minister, why is Milibland leader of the opposition? because they could be bothered. and if you cant then stop whinging about it.

wow, so you can only discuss politics and policies if you are a politician or are trying to become a politician? Thanks for the warning, mummymeister.

mummymeister is talking sense and people don't like it. If so many horrendous wrongdoings are occurring, get involved rather than sitting by and complaining that nobody else is fixing them.

Why? Tbh I can't afford it and the councillors where I live reasonably represent my views so why would I want to waste a deposit (which I would have to save for to the detriment of my family) running against them?

And where am I whinging exactly? I have expressed an opinion that this policy has been very badly implemented.

So are you a councillor?

I am not a politician or trying to become one. I am on a small rural parish council because they kept making decisions about planning applications locally that really hacked me off and one of my neighbours pointed out that if you don't like it stop whinging get involved and effect change. I have no other ambition - once a month is quite enough. if you keep leaving politics to other people then you end up with their views. please re- read my post edam. what I am trying to do is encourage more people to discuss and get involved but to do it with a purpose somewhere that they can actually effect a change. you cant keep walking on the other side of the street if you feel as strongly as the OP can you?

I don't think there is room for everyone to be a councillor, M.P, etc., mummymeister, so I would be the very last to berate and belittle those who are not involved in politics as elected representatives.

Representative democracy also needs those who vote, and those who are happy to carry out all the around-the-edges stuff that keep parties rolling (and I have enormous respect for Independents, who manage without back-up).

And it is my cherished belief that there is much to say for the power of argument, for rhetoric (though it is sometimes viewed with suspicion), for those involved in politics at the level of communication and discussion - and actually, come to think of it, merely at the level of being interested, and being prepared to listen and engage. If there were no place for persuasion, for change resulting from argument and information, there would be no politics. And that would be a sad thing.

And mummymeister do you really view all of those voting for you with this enormous contempt because they aren't councillors like your good self? Have you tried telling your electorate that there is real politics - undertaken by those such as yourself - and there is lesser politics, not real politics - that is undertaken by those who merely vote?

What do you think voting is exactly?

I think you should make your views on this issue public, attached to your real life name. I think your electorate would love to hear them.

Or maybe sheep don't matter.

Standing isn't the same as being elected, last time I stood for election anyway.
And yes, I'd argue againt the bedroom tax even though it doesn't affect me and I'm not a local politician. I haven't seen any evidence yet of larger families being moved out of cramped housing because of it - mainly because the 3-bed council properties in my locality are occupied by pensioners, many of whom would like to downsize but can't because of a shortage of one-bedroom properties. All I see are examples where implementing the extra charge ends up costing the taxpayer more money.

I think it might be slightly more involved in a large city council. There are no small parish councils here.

Time to release land for building and stop paying these greedy bastards to sit on land that is doing nothing because some Norman forebear or other decided to become a robber baron.

It always feels slightly dirty linking to the DM but they have a point

Parish councillors, local councillors and town councillors do not pay a deposit youthecat. only if you stand as an MP does any money have to be paid. a shocking lack of knowledge about how our democracy runs. you can even claim your travelling and child care expenses so that you are not out of pocket. many larger town councils give their councillors an allowance to cover this. I am not suggesting everyone on here stand as an mp just to get themselves involved. I am glad that your local councillors represent your views but why have it done second hand when you could do it yourself. everyone always has a million excuses why not to do it.

We pay tax, the EU pays these guys to avoid tax and gives them a handsome living in the process

But why stand against someone who is already doing a fine job of it?