To think having this baby can work

[evalluna]

Hi, I already posted in larger families but didn't get many replies though the ones I got were helpful. So I have decided to post here as I know this board is busier.
I am having a terrible dilemma having just found out I am pregnant with my third (unplanned) child. We have two dcs aged 2 and 4. My partner in particular has found having young children hard and we nearly split up after the secondt. He is an academic, very driven and career focused and I know he feels the chaos of young children, lack of sleep and time has held him back, which it probably has. I also work part time but am more established in my career and I do the bulk of the childcare ( he works long days and always does some at weekends though I know even then he feels it is not enough). That said he is a very loving and good father to our dcs.
When I first found I was pregnant he was adamant it couldn't go ahead and I agreed and booked an appointment to talk about termination. Howewver sybswquently he has said he feels uncomfortable about making this decision having looked up stages of foetal development. He has said it is up to me to decide and he will support my decision. I personally have never been in favour of abortion except in extreme circumstances and really do not know if I cam physically go through with it. However I am worried another child will be a disaster financially and in terms if our relationship. I have worked out the short term finances and could just about afford childcare (an extra 600 a month so a lot) but then I worry about the longer term effects on other dc, paying for 3 at university (our income at moment is 80000 so not poor but by no means rich either). I made a list if pros and cons, the cons far outweighing the pros but when I showed it to my partner he was really upset and said it was meaningless to weigh all this up against a life. I have read the baby is the size of a lentil (5 weeks) but uncomfortably it seems like a life to me too and I feel vert squeamish about getting rid of it.
If you have managed to read all this thanks. I would love to hear from anyone especially anyone who can relate to any aspect of this.

Hiya, just wanted to add my piece.
I'm a (female) academic (postdoc) with two children who are 1 and 3. I work 9-5 three days a week and have a very supportive boss. I fully intend to apply for fellowships, lectureships, etc and climb the career ladder in my own time, and I don't feel I should be held back by only working part time these next few years. I work in a medical school so it's hardly a "fluffy" research area either. I find academia a very family friendly environment.

However, my DH is a freelance photographer running his own business and constantly moans that having kids is holding him back from achieving all he wants to. Even though I take the bulk of the responsibility for the children, enable him regularly to travel for more than a week at a time and have gone part time in my career.

Maybe it's a personality thing rather than a particular career thing which is holding our DHs back?

Do you know what? This is a whole other thread really! I agree that often your career is what you make it. I have a friend who works in one of those marketing type professional jobs, and who is always saying that one day he is going to take a year off to write a novel.
I always think of Toni Morrison, who wrote her first novel as a working parent, getting up at 5 am to write before getting the kids up, to school, and going to her own job.
That can't have been easy, but if you really want to achieve something, you find ways, or at least you try.
It's also really important that men with children push their employers for flexible working/family friendly policies, as well as proving that parents can achieve professionally without being there 12 hours a day.
Rather than going along as if they had no kids, and moaning all the while about how hard it is on them.

I'm glad. It may not be the most appropriate thing to say... but....

Congratulations

my partner always gives me the impression that if you have not made it when really young it is too late

No, not always true, but depends what you want out of it, and maybe depends on what the area of research is. Need to love being an academic to keep it up, regardless.

Thanks sanctimummy - still getting used to the idea!

I think this probably has mutated into a different discussion. That is an interesting story about toni morrison - I have tended to be more of the view that where there's a will there's a way, but maybe I am just naive about the realities of academia.

Thing1 - it was si nice to read about your positive attitude to your career and family. It sounds like you've got a good balance. Actually, even prior to having children various things to do with our relationship seemed to cause my dp difficulty concentrating on his work - I think perhaps it is to sone extent a personality thing, as you suggest, feeling the need to be working and achieving all the time. I know one thing my dp feels has massively disadvantaged him is being in the same place for too long and ideally you should be able to take up short term posts in all different places to build your cv, obviously not v realistic for many people in their thirties - is this not the case in your subject?

Hi

Glad u made a decision thats right for you. Completely understand your dh wanted to move around esp if he is jn research as most uni's dont like to keep post docs longer than 5 years unless they are lecturing/bringing in their own funding.

Most of my colleagues have become lectures, moved on or gone into private industry.

You know the effect of your last baby so ypu can prepare for this one ie keeping older ones in daycare ect

I am shocked that you seem to be excusing your DH, is "finding it hard having small children" actually code for being selfish? Many people manage being focused, very academic and very driven with being good selfless people who realise that their children didn't ask to be born and doing the best for them. As your husband hasn't practiced safe sex he is equally responsible for this pregnancy. Don't let him put the blame and responsibility for this child solely onto you.

I think this is simple. You will regret not having the baby more than you will having it. I don't know anyone who wishes they didn't have their child once it he/she is born. You will manage, most people do.

Congratulations! I wish it was me having your dilemma.

Hi OP, not sure about the lentil theory of the baby. When I was pregnant with DD and we were living in the US, we went in for a really fancy vaginal scan at 8 weeks. It was so crisp and clear and we could see her in sharp focus/zoomed in. She already had perfectly formed little legs which she was kicking furiously, little stumps for arms and a round head with bulbous protrusions where her eyes would develop. She measured at 2.5cm and I was shocked at how human like she was because, like you, I was under the impression that they were just a clump of cells at that stage. With DS, we had a normal ultrasound scan at nine weeks where they rub it over your tummy and that is all he looked like ... a clump of cells.

Obviously it's up to you and you already know how disruptive children can be and have been. Then again, he or she could also be a source of great love and joy and possibly have the opposite effect you are anticipating. My experience of nearly all third children is that they very gregarious and affectionate. Best wishes whatever your decision.

I think your reasons for abortion are not strong enough. You are very financially stable, you earn well abouve the family average and you could work out childcare to make things cheaper (nanny, perhaps). Thinking ahead to University is silly, you never know what may happen. One child may not go to university, for example. Plus I was at university and you simply take out a loan. My parents were not in a situation where they could financially support me.

It sounds to me as though your husband has had a change of heart. Definitely consider keeping.

Hi again evalluna,
I guess I've been really lucky in my career, I've been able to move schools within the university so have worked in three different research groups and I also spent some time commuting to London to work in a different institution (I live on the south coast) so I have been able to move around job wise while living in the same place. Also I have been able to develop a unique set of skills, and jobs have happened to come up at the right time where I've been the only one in the running, meaning I can negotiate a full time job down to 3 days a week at the application/interview stage, which I have done twice.
The important thing is not to stay in your phd supervisor's lab and never branch out from under their wing. If you haven't moved around it is difficult to sell yourself as an independent researcher in your own right.
I am 5 years out of my phd now with 2 lots of maternity leave and 4 years part time work. So I only count as about 2-3 years postdoctoral, if you actually count the time I have spent working. I am going to apply for a mid career fellowship soon, which requires 4 years post doc experience, once I have some funding on my cv I will be a good candidate for a lectureship and hopefully it will coincide with my kids going to school so I can go full time then.

Hi, thanks for all the advice from those who posted since my last post. Have decided to go ahead now and my partner agreed - neither of us felt comfortable with termination. Mimi that is interesting re difference in scans - maybe your son was curled up! I have read variously that the embryo is size of lentil, pen nib or sesame seed - couldn't see it on scan though just gestational sac which is apparently normal for around 5 weeks.

Thing1, thanks for your post sounds like you have it well worked out. My dp moved uni after his phd which he finished 5 years ago, been same place since but has moved departments which is maybe good thing. He has also done some funding applications himself and got money in for these. Hopefully something will happen in next few years in terms of permanent posts! I wish you good luck in your career anyway.

I would not be surprised if they are the size of a lentil at five weeks. What I meant to say is that with the more advanced scans, you can clearly see that they really are a little miniature person forming. With the ordinary ultrasound scans, the image is not very clear at all and you don't get a good sense of that.

Very happy for you, op :) congratulations and good luck!

Glad you've decided to go ahead.

My strong feeling is that outside of abnormalities, if termination is the right decision you pretty much know that 100% and there's no question of proceeding.

You clearly didn't feel like that and neither did your DH so I think you've made the right decision..

Congratulations.

Congratulations - good luck - you will be a lovely, happpy family I'm sure.