Or is DH. Regarding bed time routine with DTs

[wickerbasketcase]

My twins are 12 weeks. We've established a routine of bath feed bed that starts around 6.30and takes usually an hour but often longer if they won't settle. It's improving with consistency,and now both are waking less at night and stretching out time between feeds. DH had an unavoidable meeting tonight where he had to attend to give a presentation. Totally fair enough as he's the wage earner right now. However, routine has gone to hell and I've been up and down the stairs umpteen times. DTs are now back down with me in front of Eastenders until DH gets home. The thing is, he now wants to go to football training every Tues night from 7-9. He already does footie all day on a Saturday, often playing at away matches a few hours away. I think all our progress will get undone as I can't manage bedtime for DTs alone.

I have 15m DTs plus 3.5DS. I remember the first time I had to do solo bedtime, I was terrified! But I managed. and it gets easier every time.

I agree that a bedtime routine is vital, especially with twins. Like you we did (and still do) bath at 6.30pm, milk and bed. The key is planning. I would lay out their nappies, sleepsuits and sleepbags in the bathroom and both towels. I would strip both twins to their nappy and then wrap DT1 in a towel. DT2 would then go in the bath. DT2 then dried, and dressed. at 12 weeks she would just stay on the floor, once rolling in a bouncy chair. then repeat with DT1. by 12 weeks mine were on bottles so I would either pop them in their bouncy chairs or prop on pillows (set up beforehand) to feed them.

I appreciate SIDS guidelines but we chose to put ours to bed upstairs - the reason for keeping them in the same room is to keep them slightly disturbed and for the sound of other breathing to regulate theirs - as there are 2 of them they are never alone anyway. we have no other risk factors therefore I felt comfortable doing this. and of course checked them regularly.

My DH does cricket nets once a week and is out all day Saturday at a match. Life does not stop because you have children, it just requires a lot more planning.

OP I know it is so daunting but it does get easier (once both could sit up I started bathing both together which speeds things up! now I bath all 3 together!).

I disagree completely that at 12 weeks they cant do routine. we started at 3 weeks and by 5/6 weeks they were going down happily and still do now.

do you have any local family or a friend who could help you on the night that DH is out? if not could you ask him to maybe put it off for a few weeks? I agree with languagetimothy that in a few weeks it will all become a lot more manageable.

have to say I don't get this obsession with it being 'fair'. he can have a night off if I do. seems silly. I don't have a hobby that takes me out in the evening. DH does. i'm not going to invent something to do so he has to deal on his own. seems very childish to me.

Good luck OP, there is light at the end of the twin tunnel I promise!

Hello trashcan my dt's are 8 too,

I got myself into what was a oddly strict routine in that feeds for the first 16 weeks, 3 hourly, days and night following on from the SCBU routine, I didn't need to feed at all between as they took what they needed.

but this routine left me free for anything else, I knew what time they where to be fed and would feed, leave the house and know I could be out for 5 hours with only 1 feed to do,

we did this throughout the night to until they where 7 months old when suddenly they slept through... one had naturally fallen into 5 hourly at night a couple of months before this and the first night was ...12 hours straight the first night then after 11 hours ever since.

important things to note are I was not a zombie for those 7 month, tired but not strung out, Dh would do the 12 midnight feed and the 9 am feed just before he left for work, I would go to bed at 10 sleep til 3 and 6 in a sort of half asleep way, I am sure many people now what I mean you are aware but as soon as you lie down straight asleep again, feed them, I would then sleep until 10.30am...yes I would, I didn't have to go to work, no one marking my time sheet, no prizes for staying awake after the 6am feed. they slept too trade off is no mid morning nap needed.

I don't think it is unreasonable for either partner to take time out from the children but it need to be as fair as it can be, you don't necessarily need to have a day or evening off every week to the minute he has, but nurturer your social life and make it clear that when you are out unless you will return home to find a vehicle with blue flashing lights outside your home, phoning you for every little problem is not an option :)

My DH did not take to this easily but nor did I, we had our moments, I remember the days shopping I had to return to 2 crying 12 month old's at 3.30 "they have been fine until an hour ago they they have been real pains" general chit chat ensued with them needing cuddles, my question of "what did they have for lunch?" was met with a blank stare and a "Oh! Fuck!" as he ran into the kitchen...

we all have really hard times I was lucky this work for me...I found 3-4 yrs old hell, constantly phoning DH in tears. whenever I found it difficult I would repeat "it is just a phase it won't before forever" I am finding 8 a golden age with mine, my friend is finding 8 a nightmare with her boy.

Take what I say with a pinch of salt, all people and children are different, get out on your own even if it is just to the supermarket, take all the help offered, if they find it difficult, they won't offer again but you will have had a least one break out of it, say yes to everything you want to do, worry about logistics later, if you do that first you will do nothing, negotiate with you DH might be the football idea seems to him a easier way to get you too agree to time out, but the real reason is he wants a few beers after with friends more, let him go for the beer after miss the footie, or have his friends round and you supply the beer, might be he is worried with his new responsibly and wants to get fit worry about his health and providing for his family, men need friends too and to talk through their new found "Dad" responsibilities

Sorry long but I really remember how hard the early years are, I feel for you,

Oh FGS with the "babies must be in the same room as you" line. Research being stretched to it's most crazy conclusion. I take the research with a grain of salt TBH. They'll be fine. Just don't smoke around them, wrap them up in synthetic polarfleece blankets, drink a bottle of wine and fall asleep with them in the same bed as you. As long as you don't do that, the chances of them dying of cot death because they're 'not in the same room as you' are next to zero. Besides, if it's the sound of another person breathing that regulates their breathing, twins have it made. They have another twin's breath to hear.

Give him a kick up the arse.

Whilst I think you shoudn't be so needy, on the other hand he should want to do it. It's kind of early days to be doing it on your own.

Hope the babies are doing well, congratulations :)

I also disagree with the 'at 12 weeks they can't be in a routine', just like others. Our DT's were in a routine from the very beginning and I mean it.. Some people may say that's rubbish but when you have multiples, you need something to keep your sanity. Even the hospital advised to do it.

I believe life shouldn't just stop for both parents, it just takes some re-adjusting. Our DTs are now happy, albeit noisy and slightly kamikaze 5 year olds.

The reason they are supposed to stay with you in the same room until 6 months is due to sudden infant death syndrome. I know, I know everyone on here thinks its ott but it really has saved lifes in the years this has been recommended.
A small baby in a dark room without disturbance will all into a deep sleep. It is at this deep sleep that they are most likely to stop breathing. If a small baby is asleep in the living room with you and hears you moving/ tv on/ kitchen noise then they will still sleep well but won't drop into a dangerous level of deep sleep as the background noise keeps them at a safer level.
At night x2 adults tossing and turning, breathing, etc will also keep them from a dangerously deep level of sleep.
You only have to look on the fsid website to read all the bereavement stories and how they recommend it. A dummy is also now recommended when they first fall asleep to regulate a breathing pattern.

I'm all for routine, but at 12 weeks I think it shouldn't be so complicated or difficult for someone. Feeding, changing nappy, and popping in a Moses basket downstairs is plenty of a routine at this age. It is also easier for you as can be done by one person easier if needed, babies can be watched, exta feeds given to one if needed or one can be settled again straight away.
In a few months time it can be reviewed and adapted to cot upstairs.
Ps I recommend a beanbag upstairs once older as a good way of feeding/ reading/ changing two at a time

Another mum of twins here. The replies above make me realise why I always feel uncomfortable hanging around mums of singletons - they Just Don't Get It!

Twin mums have so much guilt to deal with constantly. We can't be the sort of mum to our babies that mums of singletons are to theirs. So to everyone expressing horror at the idea of a bedtime routine and breaking SIDS guidelines above, you're really not understanding what it's like to have twins and you are only adding to the OP's sense of guilt.

A bedtime routine is absolutely essential for lots of twin mums who would otherwise break under the strain; we had one from 10 weeks and I was like a new woman once it was implemented.

Twin dads are MUCH more involved in baby care than dads of singletons. It is not an option for them to duck out of their responsibilities.

I would be seriously putting my foot down OP. Bedtime is when you need him more than any other time in the day.

We only did baths twice a week, but even so bedtime is a horribly stressful event and needs two pairs of hands (ideally. Sometimes I do it alone, but it's not much fun for me or the babies).

I had another falling out with my husband last night over bedtime and my twins are 8 months old! He just doesn't understand how hard the last hour of the day is and how I count down the minutes until he walks in the front door. I put mine in the bath, expecting him home within 20 minutes to help me get them out and he was 20 minutes late. It is really hard to get twins out of the bath without someone else there to help, for obvious safety reasons, so mine ended up all cold and wrinkly waiting for him. Hideous.

Put your foot down with your husband, OP. To really drive the message home, ask him to do bedtime on his own one day. He will understand then.

forevergreek you don't have multiples do you?

Queenofkelsingra had the ideal solution to bath time (a few posts up thread). Queen baths her twins one at a time, preventing them sitting in the water for longer than necessary and making the task far more manageable.

DH used the same queuing method at bathtime as above too.
OP, I would seriously post these questions on multiples in the multiples area so that you get relevant to multiples advice.

Runningchick dads have to be a lot more hands on with twins, a twin mum doesn't grow and extra pair of arms and eyes when pregnant, although I often think the extra pregnancy hormones we had to suffer should have made that happen!

Life goes on hold with twins for the first year. I am so envious of mums of singletons to the point I wonder what they do all day! You really have no idea what it's like, just because your Mum went through does not mean you understand. I am a very strong person, but the first few months nearly broke me. And that was with a very supportive husband who has not yet been out alone since the babies were born. It's the same for all the other mums in my twins group. It's not like having one baby but with a bit extra. You are constantly doing something, constantly feeling guilty about what else you should be doing, your emotional and mental energy is down to ZERO even before the day ends. It's not just a case that we do twice as many feeds and nappy changes as mums of singletons, it is way more complex than that.

Hubby needs to be home for bedtime every night, it's not much to ask in the grand scheme of things.

OP also consider posting on the Tamba message board. I find that with a couple of exceptions, people are a bit more practical and less judgey/idealistic there.

Ditch the nightly baths it's unnecessary and another job u don't actually need to do nightly. Dh needs to wait a few more months before football if it has been 1 baby I wouldn't have had a problem but 2 is a bit more understandable.

Lots of people have their own struggles be it twins or something else.
Try having a child with such a complex disability that he requires three people to solely care for him simultaneously when he goes for respite (which happens 8 nights per year). Then imagine coping with that same child on your own whilst your partner goes to his full time job as you have a mortgage that needs paying and shock horror even 'letting' that partner go out for drinks after work sometimes despite being exhausted mentally physically and everything else due to coping with the tasks that take 3 other people to manage.
The disabled child doesn't sleep well, never has, the whole family has very long term sleep deprivation, has to get up even when child s sleeping to administer various medications. The mother has to stay on hospital with the disabled child many many times each year. There is also another chld in the family who has to be given time and needs looking after.
This disabled child isn't going to get settled into a routine and grow up and get easier to manage, he is going to get more difficult to care for and consume more of his parents energy.
Routine is vital for the disabled child and things have to be done atthe exact same time, in the exact same way each day .
Life throws things at you and you deal with it and i Actually believe that parents are more productive when they have their down time to enjoy something for themselves.
As long as the partner does not take an unreasonable amount of time to himself and helps when he is around then I think it is fair to have some time to himself.
So yes I don't have twins and don't understand what it is like to be a parent of a twin, but I do understand what it is like to struggle with things that other parents don't have to struggle with.

FSIDS guidelines - they need to be in the same room as you for the first 6 months, naps and night time sleeps. Very, very important. It HALVES the risk of cot death.

I can understand why you're clinging to the bedtime routine with twins, but you would probably feel a bit more relaxed about it if you accept that the babies will not notice or care about routine at this age, although it doesn't hurt for you to get into a pattern of getting them settled for bed if that's what works for you.

Anyway, WRT your DP... he's not BU to want a night to do his own thing once a week, on the proviso that you also get a night to do whatever you want while he takes charge of the babies. It's the balance that matters.

I am on the side of life doesn't stop just for twins.

It can't. Or when do you allow life to resume? When they are 1 and starting to toddle off all over the place?
When the terrible 2s start?

Life doesn't stop just for twins, or just for a single baby, but it's very very different. If an adult wants their life to not change at all then I cannot understand why they would have a baby in the first place, after all if their life is so wonderful already, why would they want this horrible disruption of a tiny person to look after. If you have a baby I think you should accept that your life will be different for at least a while - six months, a year without a once-weekly football match, when you already go out every Saturday is really nothing in the scheme of things.

Dear lord, I'm suddenly feeling massively grateful for my DH!

Yes, life throws all sorts of stress and strains at people, but the idea that 'people just cope' is nonsensical. People regularly don't 'just cope'. People fall apart. Single parents fall apart too. If I did not have a DH who was prepared to shoulder more of the load when I got ill, I'd have been admitted to a mental hospital, and my children would have been removed. That's life. 'Just cope'? Dream on. I am consantly aware that because of our situation, the strain on him is greater, and we need to pay attention to that too, to make sure he doesn't go under as well. The way we're working at the moment is that any time I am physically able to have the children for an hour or two to give him a break (or a glorious day if that's possible), I do that. It's not ideal for either one of us, but we both get that we have commitments to each other and the children that we need to meet, even when times are hard.

The idea that one parent should have to 'just cope' while the other parent gets to go out and live their life is outrageously one sided. Most parents work as a partnership, making sure that everyone's needs are met as best as they're able.

I actually don't think either you are your DH are being unreasonable, OP. You are finding it more stressful than he is prepared to admit, and he's finding the restriction of his social life harder than you're prepared to admit. I think you need to be very calm, and talk about this together. I think it's reasonable for you to ask him to try to do one evening single handed so that he can see for himself the sorts of strains it will put you under. I think it's also reasonable for you to discuss possible coping strategies for either one of you doing it single handedly at need. I think it's reasonable for you to say 'can we reassess in four weeks when we've worked out some of the teething problems?' Realistically, you've only tried to do this alone once, so I think it's a little early to say that you simply can't do it.

Good luck with it all!

I have never had twins so obviously have no idea how hard it is, however I do think you're making it extra stressful for yourself trying to bathe them every night. Also I don't agree with leaving them to sleep upstairs whilst you're downstairs, but they're you're babies.

however it would be a cold day in hell before DP pissed off playing football instead of helping my raise his babies at the weekend. Once in a while? Fine. Not every bloody weekend for an entire day and certainly not every Tuesday night too.

When's your time off OP?

My husband wanted to play sport in the evenings just after our twins were born. Yeah, no.

Oh, and OP? Twins are bloody marvellous (eventually). Congratulations!

12 weeks is such early days. For one baby let alone two!

For my (now 6 mo) DS, bedtimes suddenly became easier between 12 weeks and 16 weeks. So there is hope just around the corner hopefully. Can DH hold off a month or two?

Definitely don't feel guilty for instigating a routine, my DS had been in one since 10 weeks and it definitely chills him out in the evenings with things happening in an expected order. I'm sure it is more important for twins. Babies will associate a smell with sleep, so I'm in the camp of Putting them to bed upstairs so they can associate the room the cot is in smell with sleep. It's lovely (essential?) to have down time too without babies once they have gone to bed.

Your bedtime routine needs to be much shorter. Half an hour at most.

From around 6 weeks my oh and i both had one night off each a week. It worked well for us but i understand it wouldn't for everyone. I think it is really important to make sure you are getting equal amounts of down time. How many hours off is he getting on Saturday? Make sure you are getting just as many hours, maybe all if Sunday or Sunday morning and one evening a week? Even if you just use the time to sleep it is fair that you get this time too.

So the OP's DH wants an evening and a day off from the limited time (of necessity) that he spends with his family. Someone do the percentage for me?

I think it's very, very unreasonable actually, even if they'd had a singleton, not twins. (And, although delightful, twins really are hard work).

And the usual MN argument of the OP having equal time off (and I do appreciate she needs a break and her own time too) drives me nuts.
When would they all be together for more relaxing and fun times?