To think we are one of the only countries in Europe without a high speed rail link..........

[Ilovemyself]

....... and that the Nimbys should shut up. It will create vast employment and will bring us in line with the rest of Europe's rail network.

After all, everyone complained about the M1 or HS1 and they are now classed as vital infrastructure!

Another thing about Ebbsfleet is that unlike Gatwick, Heathrow etc there is nothing there. Just a Cafe Nero and a paper shop.

So there's no bullshit CAA reasons to get you there two hours early for your journey so you go shopping.

You just arrive 30 minutes before your journey.

Miaow I can completely understand your feelings. My parents house when I was a teen was about 100m from a proposed route. The houses closer were scheduled for demolish. In the event the line was built about 1/4 mile away. No one that lives in the nearest houses can hear it.

Also the impact to the locals whilst the line was being built, at least on this part of the route which is also where Ebbsfleet is was amazingly minimal.

I suppose you'd have to have seen it to believe it, but we were petrified by the predictions by the protest organisers in the 80's and not many of those predictions were accurate.

Daisychain. I don't think the construction of the project will help create jobs only in London.

Miaowthecat. I am not " trolling for a reaction". I am sick to death of the Nimbys in the Home Counties where I live who block progress ( like improved transport links and bypasses) and increased housing where it is sorely needed. And if you read what I have said, I believe this country could do with a decent HS rail network throughout. - not just HS 2.

And TSSDNCOP. As I stated earlier. People said the same about the M1 and we couldn't live without it now.

Like others, I think we should be looking beyond high speed rail. The idea is already out of date and HS2 has shown no real benefits for most people. The idea that it's going to bring jobs out of London is a laugh - you need more than transport for that, more likely it will suck things into London and make a wider commuter net with the associated high housing prices.

Personally, I find it annoying that - living in the East Midlands - I can get to London faster by train than I can get to the other side of my county. So many direct routes have been lost lately. We need a real rethink of the train system and other public transport links.

Yes I read that Ilove but I think it's fair to have a lot of empathy for those in Miaows position. My parents were in it too, it's awful. Its awful to hate the home you love. At one point they were going to knock the bloody school down!

The problem with these projects is the terrible uncertainty. Yes, once they're built you kind of stand and think "Blimey it's actually ok" but when you're in the eye of the storm it's hard to imagine that day will come.

"I dont think...." doesnt equate to fact, it is your opinion because you have not availed yourself with reality. The focal point of HS2 employment will be in the South East, not in Birmingham or Manchester.

TSSDNCOP. I do have empathy for those like Miaow (apart from when they accuse me of trolling when it is a subject i feel strongly about) but for every one of them there are 5 who won't be affected but don't want it within 10 miles of where they live

Miaou, it is for people like you that I continue to fight for the need for transparency, because the madness that you describe, the lunacy of the decisions being made in the name of "progress", are being white-washed in an attempt for the project to receive wide support. Currently, the government will never admit that they are on a knife edge because even in the cabinet, the fault lines are beginning to crack, the reality of the waste of HS2 is being exposed, people like Peter Mandelson are coming out against the Project.

Ilovemyself, when someone has to resort to hurling petty insults, it indicates they are skating on very thin ice!

Those of us who dont believe the lies of HS2 mustnt give up our democratic fight for the truth, which will ultimately force the Government to have to scrap the current project and reappraise the strategy.

When the finest railway expert this country has known for a generation, Christian Wolmar, says HS2 should be scrapped, its time to think again.

So daisychain. The reality of a service depot in Bucks. The reality of stations at points along the way. The reality of maintenance required all along the track. These are imagination I guess.

Well I, for one, am grateful for the OP for starting this thread.

It's given me the opportunity to read daisychain01's superb and well-informed posts.

grateful TO*

Ok daisychain. When I saw businesses suffer through a lack of infrastructure caused by Nimbys getting in the way of reasonable road improvements it annoyed me as much as those whose houses are affected by HS2. Small business owners who's businesses suffered because of a few.

And miaow. Just as you have every right to make your views clear so do I.
So I will not shut the fuck up just to please you. I believe we should have better road links, better rail link and a high speed rail network across the whole of the uk and I will stand by that.

We do need a better train service, desperately. I regularly travel by train for work, and the costs are quite frankly ridiculous.

But HS2 has all the signs of being like the M6 Toll Road. This was build as alternative to the M6, with the idea that people would pay extra to save a bit of time.

But it was predicted to be, and is, a complete failure. So much so that the company who owns it are trying desperately to get out of building the extension that they are contractually obliged to partially fund.....

Ilovemyself... I sense the goal-posts are shifting. No longer about HS2 its having a general grouse about any unfortunates who have been given the label of NIMBYs. It is democracy, those people have the right to campaign against any infrastucture they dont agree with and receive the right to reply. Putting the onus on them as being the reason businesses failed is misguided, but you have your view.

Miaow a thought has come to mind about your predicament. There might be a way out of the situation, although I recognise it involves some upheaval. Would you or you DH be prepared to try and get a job elsewhere in UK? If you can justify the need to move house due to a job move, it would enable you to apply to the Exceptional Hardship Scheme (EHS). I think there is guidance about it but I dont think it involves moving very far away, you just need to justify moving because of the job.

If your property is borderline in terms of being yards from the blighted area, i wouldnt be put off by that. Engaging with your local MP is a good start as MPs in blighted areas are currently very active in helping their constituents. The key thing is whether it is something you feel is right for your family. I am aware of certain circumstances where flexibility is given with the EHS because the policy has needed to cater for people's individual circumstances. If I can help you, do let me know.

I thin the nimby's should be properly compensated, then they might shut up. It's costing enough money anyway - for God's sake pay these poor people in their blighted homes what they deserve.

Whabylon so kind

Creamteas thank you I forgot about the M6 tollroad, another one to add to the list of spectacularly abysmal Government Graveyard Projects

NIMBY has always seemed to me to be misapplied in this case anyway. A NIMBY, typically, is someone who's going to benefit from the cheap power from the new power station/wind farm, but doesn't want it in their backyard - that's where the hypocrisy lies. The vast majority of the people who's lives are being disrupted here aren't going to derive a benefit. They're just being asked - told, actually - to suck up a cost. Their response is really pretty rational.

MadBusLady I totally agree, it is just lazy thinking, labelling anyone who fights against a project they are forced to fund, yet have no faith in, and furthermore will not benefit from.

I recognise the argument that says we don't get to choose how taxes are collected and spent. All the same, when only a very small minority benefit from a project like HS2, whilst the rest of the population watch the trains thundering past and can't climb aboard, then NIMBYism has sweet FA to do with it!

The current predicted cost for HS2 is 33 Billion,so you can bet the cost will probably nearly double to 60 Billion or so when all the planning and objections and compulsory purchases have taken place. (FOR WHAT A 40 MINUTE REDUCTION IN TIME FROM BIRMINGHAM OR 1HR FROM MANCHESTER TO LONDON) This kind of money spent at say 2-3 Billion a year in the North and Midlands could really help to rebuild the economy of other regions outside of the London and South East bubble . If a coherent plan in investing in to areas north of Watford was introduced a lot of people/companies could relocate away from the overheated London/SouthEast. In time this could narrow the evergrowing North/South Divide, so do we really want to waste up to 60 billion pounds on a project that will not bring benefit to most of the people in the country.

I recently travelled on the Belgian high speed Thalys train from Cologne to Brussels where I caught the Eurostar. I wouldn't have used it if I'd had to get out at one Belgian station and travel to another even if five mins by foot. I did this at Paris Nord to Est and it was quite a PITA.

I fail to see what benefit my journey had to to the Belgian economy. I spent no money in Brussels Midi at all. Maybe the train fare, but it was dirt cheap.