Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

To not know what to do about DS?

40 replies

Kyrptonite · 15/08/2013 20:58

He's been toilet trained for a year and a half (now 4.5). We have occasional wet pants but everyday he will soil himself

I've tried bribes, not making a big deal out of it, talking to him about it but nothing changes.

Took him to dr who has given him lactulose. Brilliant. Except now he has the shits and still isn't using the toilet or even telling me he's soiled.

He starts school in a few weeks. I've warned them and they've said they will change him occasionally but if its constant I'm going to have to come in and sort him out.

I don't know what to do. I don't want him to be the smelly kid that's bullied. He won't even tell anyone when he's gone which makes it worse as he will stink if it happens at school.

I'm at a complete loss and really hoping that someone has a magic solution!

OP posts:

Greeneyed · 15/08/2013 21:14

Just to say I'm really sorry, have only just resolved this with my wee man and he's also starting school I completely understand your worries.

Why has the doc prescribed lactolose? My DS had constipation and compaction for a while and was leaking poo beyond his control this resolved with lactolose but he still went in his pants, If it's any consolation he has just stopped doing it (with the occasional accident) so it may resolve soon. Shout for help go back to GP and call health visitor.

TheTurdsOfMisery · 15/08/2013 21:16

Kryptonite - all I can say is I know your pain. My son did this until he was around 7. Maybe 8. It was mortifyingly embarrassing and nothing I did or said ever made any difference. Didn't stop him doing it, didn't make him give a - forgive the pun - shit about doing it. It was the day the school janitor came out and told me he'd spent most of the afternoon going round picking up bits of errant shit that had fallen from DS's pants during the course of the day that nearly finished me off. I can laugh, a bit, now but it was awful.
The only thing I can tell you is that one day he stopped doing it. I don't know if someone said something to him or what. But he just stopped. Interestingly, when I told my Mum about this she said 'Oh, your little brother did that till he was 11' which got me wondering if this is actually 'a thing'?
Anyway - good luck to you and I hope the end comes sooner rather than later.

Original poster

Kyrptonite · 15/08/2013 21:17

They prescribed the lactulose because he was constipated. So it has helped but now its a great deal more to have to clean up and DS still appears to have no awareness that its happening!

OP posts:

thebody · 15/08/2013 21:22

no real advice but as a reception class TA I deal with this a lot and it happens a lot so school should be able to cope.

send in changes of clothes in his book bag and wipes too are a great idea.

it will get better.

Greeneyed · 15/08/2013 21:26

I would definitely go back to the GP - have you googled impaction? I think there is some good information on patient.co.uk. I won't explain it very well but if he had this he will have stretched everything and the muscle wall doesn't work very well expelling poo because there is basically a big gap there for it collect in, the lactolose makes it soft enough to come out whilst the muscles shrink back and the process starts working normally. Just a theory but he might not actually have any control over this at the moment. (sorry that was the worlds worst medical explanation!)

daftdame · 15/08/2013 21:28

Is there any routine to when he has a bowel movement? Could you encourage him to try in the morning before school and after each meal?
Maybe try to check this after constipation has settled down. If you can get him into a routine this could be replicated at school and he is less likely to be caught out when desperate.

daftdame · 15/08/2013 21:30

I say this because I used to do with my ds, he was apt to avoid going to toilet if he was busy playing etc and then we had accidents.

Original poster

Kyrptonite · 15/08/2013 21:32

At nursery it happened after lunch every day. Which was fine if he was taken in time but he still had no idea he needed to go.
At home it seems to be in the evening but can be anytime between 5-8 PM and even though I take him regularly its still not happening in the toilet.

He's not night trained yet either . DD is 3.3 and does everything in the toilet. They were both toilet trained the same.

OP posts:

daftdame · 15/08/2013 21:33

Other than that I think you can get pads to put in his pants and they'll have to get to check them at intervals and help change if necessary.

daftdame · 15/08/2013 21:39

Well I think that information is something at least to tell school, the straight after lunch bit. If they get that sorted at least there is less chance of accidents. They should be able to make a plan for him, I think it can be counted as a special need and they have to provide care. Have you spoken to the SENCO?

daftdame · 15/08/2013 21:42

I think I have read past threads on here linking to what a school has to provide in these circumstances so if you do a search you should be able to find the info.

Original poster

Kyrptonite · 15/08/2013 21:54

Haven't spoken to senco. Have spoken to head as GP referred him for ADHD assessment and thought the soiling may be part of that. Then CAMHS refused to follow up the referral

OP posts:

fruitpastille · 15/08/2013 21:54

Sitting for 20 mins every evening at the same time whether heneeded to go or not helped us. We rewarded for sitting not performing. After a while he got in a routine so although he still doesn't seem to know if he needs to go he at least doesn't have accidents.

TeenAndTween · 15/08/2013 21:55

Not a helpful comment I know, but if he soils himself everyday then he is evidently not toilet trained.

DD2 was like this (though younger), for about a month after she was dry in the day. She used to hide and then do a poo in her knickers. So she knew she was doing one.

Night time is definitely not to worry about for now, just keep using pull ups or whatever.

ratbagcatbag · 15/08/2013 21:57

Have a nosy at encoprenisis (sp?) it talks about due to impact ion nerves not being as good etc and they don't know they need to go.

daftdame · 15/08/2013 21:58

You don't need a diagnosis, his toileting needs still need to be met.

daftdame · 15/08/2013 21:59

Your local Parent Partnership and the IPSEA website should have advice.

Greeneyed · 15/08/2013 22:01

OP that is extremely interesting as My DS has followed a very similar pattern. I have ADHD and it is genetic so I am keeping a watchful eye on my son. Was it just the soiling that your GP referred for? - sorry I know this isn't helpful just wondering.

Original poster

Kyrptonite · 15/08/2013 22:03

Soiling, attention span unless drawing or on a screen, constant fidgeting, talking excessively, random acts of violence, screaming meltdowns. There was quite a list and as DP has ADHD DS was referred.

OP posts:

5madthings · 15/08/2013 22:07

My ds2 did this, like the other poster he was younger,' he was fine with were bit for months would poo in his pants, he would do it ams then chamge them without telling me and I would find shit filled pants hidden in his room.

I tried everything fro star charts to bribery to making him sit on potty/toilet etc,to losifn my temper and shouting nothing worked and then one day he just got it.

Def go back to gp and ask or a referal, is there a school nurse? They may have some ideas.

iwouldgoouttonight · 15/08/2013 22:11

You have my sympathy, DS is nearly 7 and we have ongoing wee/poo issues. Firstly don't worry about night times, 4.5 is still really young and doctors don't consider it a problem until they're 8 years old. My younger DD is also dry day and night and we did exactly the same potty training with her.

The consultant DS is seeing at the hospital told us the school has to help clean up after the children and are failing in their duty of care if they allow a child to sit in dirty clothes. DS is getting a bit better now but went through a time when he soiled himself every day and I was never called in to change him. The TA used to help him, now hr cleans himself, and they did say they'll put him on special needs measures if he continues to need help.

DSq is much better with pooing now, his is mainly a wee issue, but the thing that seemed to help his poo issues was ongoing laxative medicine- he has movicol every day, just a low dose. And about 20 mins after each meal he has to sit on the toilet and clench and unclench his bottom add if he is trying to poo. He had supposed to do ten 'squeezes' each time he sits on the toilet. This seemed to gradually get him into the habit of pooing after a meal and it strengthens the muscles needed to control when he poos.

We have also gone through everything from bribes, telling off, praise for poo in the right place, despair, anger, every emotion you can think of! It will improve but it might be a gradual process. From what I've found from speaking to people about DS, is a more common problem then you might think.

Original poster

Kyrptonite · 15/08/2013 22:11

I'm not sure if the school have a nurse. It's a tiny village school with about 40 pupils.

I'm going to go back to the doctor with him and see what they suggest.

OP posts:

run4it · 15/08/2013 22:14

Has same thing with dd - was constipation, and essentially leakage around it. Means it wasnt anything she could control therefore. Took a couple of months on lactulose to resolve, and no probs since - that was 6 years ago.

Greeneyed · 15/08/2013 22:19

Thanks for explaining OP I'm sorry camhs did not follow up. Assume they are waiting to see how he gets on at school? I don't have any advice to add but uou do have my sympathy. It will get better, I hope it's soon x

daftdame · 15/08/2013 22:19

I think all schools have a nurse, may not be resident, may visit IYSWIM

But they still have to meet his needs, you should not have to go in to change, you need to check out your rights. Hope all goes well at the docs.

Flip

1 2

Swipe left for the next trending thread