To not know what to do about DS?

[Kyrptonite]

He's been toilet trained for a year and a half (now 4.5). We have occasional wet pants but everyday he will soil himself

I've tried bribes, not making a big deal out of it, talking to him about it but nothing changes.

Took him to dr who has given him lactulose. Brilliant. Except now he has the shits and still isn't using the toilet or even telling me he's soiled.

He starts school in a few weeks. I've warned them and they've said they will change him occasionally but if its constant I'm going to have to come in and sort him out.

I don't know what to do. I don't want him to be the smelly kid that's bullied. He won't even tell anyone when he's gone which makes it worse as he will stink if it happens at school.

I'm at a complete loss and really hoping that someone has a magic solution!

I had more luck with my hv than my gp. She was great at getting a referral and looked at support fornthe whole family

This book may be helpful to you. Constipation, withholding and your child by Dr Anthony Cohn.

Don't get distracted by the other stuff at the moment...

First thing first - go to the ERIC website and look at their advice. Follow it to the letter - it's evidence based and frankly excellent. They know more about soiling & continence than any GP / HV

Then look up the NICE guidelines on constipation in children - you'll notice that lactoluse is NOT to be used as a first line treatment... Movicol is the first line treatment.
Print out the table in that guidance and take it to the GP. He has obviously has missed that publication

Absolutely stick to the advice in those guidelines and it will make a difference... You may find a food toileting routine and movicol might even get things going in the right direction by Sept...

We went from constipation soiling to resolved in a month tho he was older. I only knew about the above as I did a piece of work on it for my masters - most useful thing u did

My DD did this until 6 yo. And then one day she didn't. It just stopped with just occasional recurrence. Agree that Eric website is good. It seems to be one of those problems that's actually really common but no one tells you. It drove me bonkers! Like your ds, my dd didnt seem to give a shit. Strangely I think it was when I pointed out to her that her friends would notice if she smelt of poo. It simply hadn't occurred to her. So the honest an direct apptoach helped. That and spending time with a more "grown up" cousin and pointing out that she doesn't poo her pants. IME the lactulose thing made it more complicated well actually didn't make any difference. Good luck. It's horrid and quite draining. I also used the pant liners (green box) and have several boxes left over if anyone can use them, dm me.

DP now wants to delay DS starting school until this is sorted. I have no fucking clue what to do. I can't get a drs appointment for him until 5 th September which is when he starts school.

Ds2 (just finished reception) has had problems with soiling at school despite being fine everywhere else. It is really stressful and I don't have a solution (other than that shouting doesn't help).

His school have been really good at cleaning him up (he wouldn't tell at first but now does) and not making a big deal out of it.

Anyway, it was this part of your post that I wanted to comment on:

This is untrue. They not you are responsible for supporting him to access education - including cleaning him up properly (it would be nice if you supplied wipes and a change of clothes).

The first thing they should be doing is drawing up a care plan with the school nurse (school probably don't have their own but will share one with other schools).

Anyway, you are not alone and do not let them make you feel bad, or that you must constantly be on call in case of accidents.

If your son has had constant constipation, then he may have been holding onto his poo as it wld have hurt. This is what happened to DC1 and I'm worried about the school start in two weeks. DC1 is okay on poos now, but much prefers to play and stand around with wet pants than goto the loo :(

If your son has been holding onto his poo, then there is a chance that he colon has deformed, becoming more circular at the end. It sounds bad but once the constipation stops, the colon retracts and goes back to normal. This is what's happened with DC1, who was also diagnosed with toilet phobia as a result of painful poos. Look on the Eric website which should have more information and might be able to help more.

Have they put DS on lactose or something like paediatric movicol which helps the digestion become smoother? It might be worth a referral to specialist paeds as they can help plus more importantly, write a letter explaining to the school which should allow for more support. It is rubbish though - and very disheartening plus worrying.

Your H might also be able to refer you - have you got a HV clinic anywhere near you today?

Clinic was this morning 10-11 which I didn't realise .

We were at the farm, i took DD for a poo and asked DS to go. He went in the cubicle and said he had gone. I asked to see him try and he admitted he had pooed earlier. So much earlier that he was covered in a shit paste all around his bum and willy.

At this point I snapped and we left the farm so now I feel fucking awful. It's the lying more than anything right now.

I've had a look on the ERIC website and I will ask to meet with the school nurse if needs be when he starts.

Thank you everyone.

I once (a long time ago) accompanied a Mum and her DC of about 10 to an apointment with a specialist child psychiatrist about a soiling problem. Her main advice was a weekly reward chart and being firm and clear about expectations, expressed as simply and assertively as possible and regularly repeated eg every morning. Praise and reward (big tick or sticker on relevant day of chart) for any success and treat for eg 5 stickers at end of week. (Treat should be something small as it will hopefully be gained more often as time goes on). I don't know if professional advice has changed since then.

Primrose not really, which is why DH gets annoyed and thinks its DC1 being lazy. It isn't - she truly is scared of going to the toilet.

I bought a shed load of toys for a £1 each which were given after 7days of no accidents. A pack of stickers for a day with no wee accidents, and an ice-cream or chocolate for a poo on the toilet. Food is a great incentive in my house!

I now need to work on the wee issue. I might need different incentives...

My DS (5) has had chronic constipation since he was weaned and has movicol daily. We have daily soiling and he refuses to use the toilet for pooh but wees quite happily and is dry at night. We use pull ups at night for him to pooh in which reduces the amount of day time soiling as he's in a bit of a routine.

The school have been brilliant, I had a meeting with the head and a lady from the education dept before he started who suggested the routine of sitting on the toilet for 5 mins after meals which the school said they would help us with. They also help him to clean himself up after he soils. As other posters have said they have a duty of care and cannot leave a child in soiled clothing while they wait for a parent to come in, parents may work some distance away so they told me its not something they are allowed to do.

To be honest we've not made much progress yet but we've been making more effort over the summer to try and get it sorted and have been making him sit on the loo more frequently during the day and have taken away the nappy at night. Had to increase his laxative massively so he wouldn't start withholding again but feel we are now getting somewhere slowly. We are bribing him to sit on the loo by letting him watch a cartoon on my phone while he sits at the moment. He's still soiling but we're getting more in the toilet than his pants the last few days. Could all go backwards when he goes back to school though, he was doing really well at Christmas then he started soiling again, no idea why.

GP has not been a huge help and HV no help at all. We have asked for referrals but have been told not until he's 7 which I think is far too late. Like you I don't want DS to be known as the smelly kid. Like you he is not concerned at all and doesn't say when he has soiled. I know of a friend whose DS had the same issue and just grew out if it. I don't think there is a miracle cure unfortunately, just sticking to the routine and hoping it resolves as he gets older. It is soul destroying though and spoils days out etc. Was really hoping to have cracked it before he starts year 1 as I think as they get older the other kids will start to notice more.

Sorry that's a bit of a ramble but I feel your pain. It's not your ds's fault, he has a medical condition which the school should support you with. PM me if you like, I've got all sorts of leaflets the school gave me and the book constipation, soiling and your child is very good too as is the Eric website.

I'm about to download the book for my kindle. Hopefully it might help a bit. I'm getting more and more worried as September looms closer.

Thank you for that book recommendation. I read DS the mr poo story this morning and just now after 4 days of withholding he told me he needed to go and went in the toilet.

I have never been so happy to wipe a shitty arse!!

Congratulations Kryptonite's ds-may many Poos make the trip to Pooland :)