To not feel any sympathy for drug-smuggling women?

[DarceyBissell]

Just that really. Two young women facing 25 years in a Peruvian jail for trying to smuggle 11kg of cocaine. Saw they described as 'vulnerable' in one paper. Hardly. Greedy and stupid though.

and as I have said several times on this thread, I have a massive amount of sympathy because while I do believe the punishment is deserved I know it wont be pleasant (I know that's the point of punishment) and as a human being I sympathise with the fact they will be going through it for several years, more than likely tormenting themselves for ever agreeing to what they did and worrying about how they will fit back into their lives again when they get home.

Ah well that's different MaryZ. I do have sympathy for the parents of criminals (unless they have led by example of course) - they have to live with the shame of what their offspring have done and worry themselves sick for the duration of the sentence.

But I feel no sympathy for the criminal. Everyone knows drug smuggling is a crime. They knew it too. I don't have sympathy for people who willingly committ crimes and end up in jail.

Hopefully they will learn their lesson and live better lives. It's a very harsh lesson but so many on here seem convinced of their naivety and stupidity that it's obviously a lesson they need to learn somewhere.

do you think you would cheer maryz? you see I think that although it is very clear these girls are not players in that game, for just a short stint they were involved, and we are sitting her debating their reasons, immaturity, naivety, greed, forced? what makes you think that if someone a bit higher in the chain was caught that we wouldn't all be doing the same? sympathising with them, considering the idea that they had no choice? that they owed a massive amount in drug debt, their families were being threatened etc. I just don't see it as black and white. everyone has reasons for why they do what they do and although it might be easier for us to think of those who recruited these two as horrible heartless men(?) they could just as easily have been forced to by even bigger threats. people who think of killing themselves just to get out of the trap they have gotten themselves into but cant for fear that their families will be harmed without them there.

"I suppose, the higher up the ranks you go the more I feel they "deserve" it. And the more harm they do, to be honest, so catching them would be more beneficial than just catching the mules."

yes I agree with this, so in that respect I understand why it would be more cheerworthy.

and yes I agree with the rest of your post aswell.

Unfortunately the real victims seem to be the locals who live in these countries and often have nothing to do with the drug trade but have to live with the ruthlessness and terror from these gangs. People really need to know that there are innocent victims when they are partaking of a Saturday night and having fun.

^ this.

Save your sympathies for the ravages of the drugs trade in Colombia and Peru. I have driven through those villages and its truly horrible. I have worked with people whose children have been murdered because they stood up to drug gangs who wanted to take their home. It's fine to feel sorry for some young girls who've made a big mistake, of course we have all made mistakes. Awful for their parents. But seriously they are going to do a couple of years in a cramped but generally ok prison and probably qualify in gel nails and hairdressing.

I think they are misguided pleading guilty though. Probably can't bear to tell their loving parents that they did it. If they plead guilty they might only get 6 years and be out in 2 or 3.

Lots of excuses on here..'they're only young'..'we've all done stupid things at that age'..etc.
When I was a teenager I had little money, no parents to drive me about, never got to nighclubs let alone Ibiza. No one I knew took drugs or got wasted every weekend or had sex with strangers.
Am now a relatively sane and adjusted member of society. Why do we persist in extending childhood and making excuses for people who are old enough to make rational choices and face the consequences? I feel sorry for their families and have personal experience of being in a similar position to them. They were entitled, greedy and stupid - age doesn't come into it.

Seems like they where silly thinking it was easy.

I was asked by an ex to go to india and "carry bags back" for him. Needless to say thats why he was an ex I shudder to think what could of happened.

They knew what they where doing, streetwise girls like that aren't stupid

I agree with the point that however far up the 'ranks' you go, people will always find some self justification for their decisions. I doubt many people at all set out from childhood to lead criminal lives. Psychopaths and sociopaths are in an extreme minority: the vast majority of people do have a conscience, both as an individual and a social context. Of course there is a wide spectrum of experiences which people have, and some may have better role models than others. But that isn't an excuse. You could argue 'mitigating circumstances' to some degree, if a child is brought up in a home with drug using, thieving parents, but it still doesn't make it an excuse; I mean not everyone from such a home decides to live a criminal life themselves.

Anyway in the case of these two, there doesn't seem any evidence of 'mitigating circumstances'... They seem like two women from pretty average homes who went abroad and have allowed themselves to be drawn into criminal activity. I am sure in their own minds they were 'persuaded' into it (I also highly doubt they literally had guns held to their heads but I suspect they were drawn in initially in a 'friendly' manner and then the pressure was piled on. However, their refusal to acknowledge their responsibility shows they still don't 'get it' : that they have commited a really serious crime by carrying drugs.

I feel great sympathy for the parents; I find it hard to feel sympathy for the women who commited the crime. I also think in reality the punishment is NOT disproportionate; by all accounts they are likely to spend a few years in jail- not pleasant but not inhumane- and I suspect they will be free before they are 30. It certainly doesn't seem as though their punishment is harsh enough to deter other would be criminals

I dont know what choices those girls made or were forced to make and i'm on the fence with this, at the moment.

Many years ago, at age 19, my friend and i, both female, did some travelling together in Thailand.

In our final week before returning home, a stranger 'attached' himself to us, started paying for everything, for our meals and our hotel, despite us refusing and insisting we pay our own way, our bills were constantly settled by this stalker, against our wishes. We had a really bad feeling about it straight away.

Sure enough as our flight home drew nearer, this man decided we 'owed' him. He started putting alot of pressure on us to take a hold all bag back home with us. Gifts for his family, he said.

He got verbally aggressive when we were reluctant, although he didnt actually threaten us as far as i recall.

We were, of course, massively sceptical, but we certainly werent brave enough for open derision!

We could not get rid of him and he would not take no for an answer.

In the end, out of desperation, we told him a load of lies and ended up literally hiding at the airport for several days to avoid him and his bag.

It would have been so very very easy to agree to do it and he wasnt even offering to pay us!
If we, or our families, had been physically threatened, the outcome may have been very different.

Without knowing the full story, I do sympathise with these girls. They may have made a very stupid decision but i very much doubt it was pure greed motivating them.

modos . That just goes to show how small scale lots of these deals are. The difference in purchase price there and sale price in the Europe/US is so massive the lowest level criminal can play the numbers game approaching a variety of young and/dumb/poor/easily led people to carry a bag back and end up with thousands of profit. Even if they get caught, they only lose a minimal amount while the mule gets a long prison sentence.

I have also found that LAm airports are completely infiltrated by the cartels. Clients of mine on the wrong side of the cartels have been told by the home office they can go back and they will be fine and it falls on deaf ears when they reply that the cartels get to check the passengers lists to see if there's anyone they're interested in.

domesticvoyager With the benefit of hindsight, i'm sure we were deliberately targetted because we had a flight to the UK booked within a few days of aquiring our stalker. Two teenage girls travelling alone. We didnt take drugs or know anyone else who did. We must have seemed like perfect mules.

Fortunately for us, we were far more scared of the risks of taking his bag than we were of him. If he had managed to intimidate us more, he may have succeeded. Threats of violence or a weapon may have tipped the balance and we could have ended up where these girls are now.

So i will stay open minded about these girls until a few more facts come to light.

Modos i heard many similar stories in thailand and sadly many were tricked and caught :( thankfully you were wise to what he was up to

being naive is part of growing up, some are more so than others no matter how much we teach children

i have done some very stupid things in my life nothing like this but i have been lucky not to get hurt or in trouble others have not been so lucky

They deserve to go to jail for what they have done and I have no sympathy for them or anyone else who smuggles drugs!

As regards people higher up the chain.
This is why we cant judge people.
Yes, their behaviour is bad, but if you are having your family and yourselves threatened on a daily basis, it will make most people think twice about most things. Though not PeriodMath.

or Floatsyourboat

For me, the awful thing was the FB message of that nasty kingpin: 'sometimes people are just so gulable'.

Arrest him, lynch him, do whatever it takes. 'You can always tell character disordered people from the trail of hurt and damage behind them' - Martha Stout on psychopaths

Would someone mind posting some non DM links and info? I'm useless at googling and Well's post has me intrigued.

As well as the doughnut hair