To get annoyed at "catchment area" school places

[Daiso]

Not even sure if the title makes sense however.....
I'd like DS to go to a school which is 2.5 miles away - there are 2 in that area, both with amazing OFSTED reports and great reviews from friends whose DC attend. Both of these outside my catchment area even though its really not that far.
The school just down the road is shocking, friends pulled DC out, not so great OFSTED etc etc.
I can't afford to move to the area where the better schools are as the house prices are astronomical. Just no chance whatsoever of being near.
AIBU to think it's unfair that I won't be able to send DS to that school as I can't afford to live in the area?
I think that everyone should be given a chance to send their DC to a school of their choosing -maybe by first come first served putting name down or by pre school attended (DS will be going to the pre school in the grounds of school I'd like but that makes no difference)

Er we walk 30 minutes to take DD to school each way every day.....it's possible and good for you - and it's a fact of life for many in large cities including London...

" I know many people like us who the minute they thought about ttc, started thinking about how they could afford it, what kind of accommodation do we need, how much time can we afford to take off work and what sort of school do we want. Then set about getting it together. "

I agree with Habab.
I barely know anyone who didn't do the same.

I remember reading a few years ago a council which scrapped the catchment system and went to a lottery based system.

It sounded great on paper and much fairer. In practice it was a nightmare. Can you imagine living right next to the school and being assigned a place at another school 2 miles away?

Catchment system isn't perfect but it's fairer overall than the alternative

"unfortunate to live in a black hole"

But you must have realised this. When ttc? Soon after? And you COULD have addressed it? Surely?

Gazza is that aimed at me? It would take me an hour to walk to my next school. An hour on rural roads without pavements. National speed limit roads with two small children.
Past my school which is a five min stroll away.

jam I have friends who've removed children from almost every school in the city and its environs (different friends, different children - not the same family!), including from two of the private schools. Secondary and primary. Allegedly Outstanding and allegedly Unsatisfactory.

I also know people who are very happy with those exact same schools.

I also know that a good 50% of ds's old Y6 class were tutored, which utterly skewed the school's SATs results making that supposedly excellent village primary look an awful lot better than it is in comparison to a school with a less wealthy intake.

Basically, I would never dismiss a school with a bad reputation out of hand, and certainly not in favour of whatever school is in fashion at the moment.

oblo that's my comment, it is unfortunate, someone will be in that situation.

Not me BTW we sold our lovely house in a town because the schools were crap and moved to a village with a good school before getting pregnant.

If I had lived somewhere. When I just met dh and we were dating? going on holiday to ..... Cuba etc. And we were NOT in a catchment for a school that I thought was good enough. Then this wouldn't have been a problem, would it? Because we were young, dating, child-free.

But when you find out you are pg? Or give birth. And talk about what you want for your dh, his future job, where you want to live. Do we move out of London to ... Nottingham/ Cornwall. etc etc. You discuss. You think about buying/renting in an area, that makes sure you are in catchment.

This is hardly rocket science.

"Not me BTW we sold our lovely house in a town because the schools were crap and moved to a village with a good school before getting pregnant".

EXACTLY, Gracie. My point exactly.

No you haven't got it right Oblomov. We owned a flat in an area near to the school DS currently attends but we moved out of the area and rented the flat out as I was on maternity leave with my DS. We wanted to return to our OWNED flat in the locality when DS was 3 but the tenants would not move out. We were homeless and so had to rent somewhere until we sorted out the legal process of getting them out and so we rented a flat nearby but closer to the school- it was the only flat available within our price range to rent- it was damp and a bit crap basically. The Landlord had inherited the flat and wanted to sell it, I had just had my second child and we needed 2 bedrooms, we had previously lived in a big one bedroom with DS. We said we buy it once our tenants had moved out and we could sell our flat. This process took too long so the Landlord decided to serve notice on us and not sell it to us. Meanwhile, our owned flat was still occupied by our tenants. Temporarily, we moved in with my MIL, all four of us in one bedroom, until our tenants left our property and we sold the flat. With the money we looked for a flat near the school that DS attends but we couldn't afford anything 2 bedroom. It is slightly cheaper in our current area in that you can get a flat without damp for the same money as one with damp near DS's school. The schools that are currently 'local' are outstanding and so I cannot move him until a place becomes available which it hasn't so far.

When I applied for a school place for DS the 'local', nearest secular school was the same for our owned address and subsequently our rented address. However, at my owned address we most likely would've been in the black hole of school allocation by about 5 metres for the year of allocation. As would a lot of people in that area as there are simply not enough schools for intake. We lived 2 blocks from the school, we were local, there was no other choice.

There is an unfair bias towards people who can buy a property near to a good school as their reasons for moving will never be scrutinised like those of a 'renter'. It is absolutely fair game to ask someone who is renting to be 'accountable' for their actions.

Oblomov do you have any understanding of how the Economy works- most people have to live where jobs are available. Cornwall is a great place to bring up your children, i know as i lived in Fowey in my early 20's for a year but it is largely occupied by wealthy second homers so you'd be hard pushed to a) find work that is not seasonal b) afford a property to live in, unless you own one of those money trees that seem to assist your 'planning'!

My DP is an Architect and outside of London and the south these plentiful jobs just don't exist.

Those who say "save up and move to a good catchment area" and "join the board of governors and improve your local school" are either naive or disingenuous.

Where I live, in an OFFSTED excellent catchment area, my 2 bed terrace is at the bottom end of the market prices and is 170K. 2 miles away in the crap catchment area, a 3 bed semi is about 130K. That's a difference of £167 a month on a 5% mortgage. I'm lucky on a whole number of levels - grandmother gave me deposit on first house, got on housing ladder early, in a professional job. If my household income came from, say, a supermarket job, or a bus driver's job, or any one of the hundreds of low paid jobs the majority of people in this country do, I could save till I was blue in the face and still not be able to afford a house in a good catchment area in this city (which by the way is just a bog-standard provincial town, not London).

And improving your local school? With time and energy, you might manage to buy some new play equipment. But get rid of a bad head teacher who's demoralising the staff and dragging the performance of the whole school down? You underestimate your power. (I remember watching my mum, who was a teacher, spend her career coming home in tears from schools like this where she watched bright, dedicated children with loving, supportive parents being utterly failed by the system in sink schools with ineffective heads and in-fighting in the staffroom - btw, to be clear, I'm not teacher-bashing here, I'm bad-management-bashing).

If a lottery system jolts people out of their smug "I'm alright jack" attitude and forces them to think about the political changes necessary to bring all schools up to standard, then bring on the lottery system!

And FYI Oblomov we haven't done anything 'criminal' as we had a home visit to our address to see DS by the teacher- it wasn't an issue - legal or otherwise. I also reported our change of address immediately as I assumed his place would no longer be available.

I think most of you here would be aghast that I never had the sort of conversations with my DH that you appear to have head when having given birth. My immediate thoughts were not about what school I wanted to send my child to!

I didn't think about schools until we had the letter to say it was time to apply. Then I had a look round the two nearest to me, and went with the one that had the friendliest atmosphere.

We couldn't even begin to think about moving anywhere at that point,as we were in negative equity!

My second child went to the same school.

When DS2 came along we HAD to move because no room in our flat. We had just come out of negative equity at this point, but the easiest way to buy was to move 250 miles away,where housing was cheap. Still we didn't give schools much thought other than we knew there were several nearby. Luckily, we were able to get into them easily.

All I can say is, my children are doing very well, under the circumstances.

So, does it make me a poor parent for not giving schools such major consideration?

GoldenBear, you sound so bitter and twisted. Are you really that poor? Or to you feel resentful to all people who are marginally better off than you?

I also suspect, that in actual fact , I am not even marginally better off than you.

And yes, I think I have a reasonable grasp of how the economy works. Why do you think that I do not?

Some people live where jobs are available. But you want to live in a very nice area, that you can't afford to live in.
Many people live in an area that they can afford to live in. And commute, to where their job is.
My reference to Cornawall or Nottingham, was just a light hearted suggestion. But light-hearted seems to bypass on you. I could have chosen anywhere, Dorset, Norwich anywhere. Do you take umbrage at any suggestion?
And yes I grew up in Devon, so I know Cornwall a bit. Many of my friends still live and WORK in Devon and Cornwall. Not seasonal. Permanent. It's not impossible. Although you seem to think it is. And , over the years, I have seen many threads on MN, of Londoners wanting to escape the rat race, and move to Devon, Dorset etc.

Hard pushed to find anything other than seasonal work? Oh purlease. There are loads of jobs in Devon and Cornwall. You are mad to suggest otherwise. You don't think there are lawyers and architects and accountants in Devon and Cornwall?

And what makes you think I either had a money tree, or think that you need a money tree to assist in planning? Planning doesn't involve money. It involves planning. Thinking.

I don't have any money. I've never been given any money.
I have no idea why you keep bringing in money, to your references to Me.

What makes you think my planning , or anyone else's, centres around money. Let me assure you, mine did not.

Your dp is an architect. Good for him. Lots of studying. And i'm sure he is experienced. Does he have a good job now? Not good enough for you to live in the area that you wish to live in. Maybe you just need to be more accepting. And lower your standards.

I joked about ( that too may have by-passed you, it was just a JOKE) about wanting to live in Hampstead or Kensington. I am TOTALLY happy where I live and do not have any intentions of ever moving.

I hope that you too will , one day be able to say the same.

Yes exactly, the smugness exuding from this thread is unbearable!

The 'blackhole' problem is not just 'unfortunate' it is a huge problem for many. It is unavoidable.

No Jamdonut, of course it doesn't.
I too have lived here for many years. Prior to ever even thinking of having children. And was happy with our nearest school.

BUT, you can't come on , years later, and complain about it. People must have been living in a bubble if they though that , when your child is a toddler, you don't atleast think about school.

I don't think you are mad for not thinking about it. But you can't come on Mn and say, I can't get my child into a decent school. And this is so unfair.
Err, this should have been allocated some consideration, some time ago. Would be my response.

There is a 750,000 shortage in SW London and the surrounding areas. 750,000 children will not get a school place. AT ALL. Awful. If it had been Me, I would have been doing something about it. I know not what, but something. I found this out, when I was reading about school applications last year. Even though my ds2 does not starts until this september, I found this out because I was just browsing. I do not live in a vacuum, oblivious to what is going on around me.

If you can't get your child into a school that you are happy with. Then address it. And don't leave it to the last minute.

I can not see how that can not be considered sensible advice.

Blackhole Problem = unavoidable?
No. It is avoidable. It's called moving.
Every MN thread I have ever seen, has suggested this. As atleast one option.

So no. It is avoidable.

Sigh..... I'm not suggesting that anyone should have to walk along a country lane with no pavements.....I think maybe it's rather different if one lives outside London and particularly in the countryside the same principles don't/won't/can't necessarily apply...

Just really saying that's the reality of living in London - all I can say is that I'm glad DS was born before the babyboom (although only by a couple of years) and that DD is our second child. Had DD (only 7) been our eldest there is no way she would have got into the school she attends (and the one which we had so much difficulty getting DS into).....

It is our choice to do the walk to give DD a relatively good start education-wise (merely pausing to remark that her school is not outstanding by the way) - but believe me, after 10 years of doing it, come rain or shine, DW is really rather fed up with it (although she admits it's good for her and DD).

When we had DS we didn't know many people already with children and particularly not ones based in London. So we moved to our semi-grotty area without even thinking about the quality of schools at primary or secondary level. Naive yes, but I guess we didn't necessarily think we would be living around here so long and really no-one had alerted us to the fact that we should be 'on the case' of good schools from the moment we'd conceived DS!

No I am not bitter and twisted and neither are we poor and that is the ludicrous thing about your proposition that it is all down to 'planning'. It assumes 'All things being equal' your plans will work out but in reality all things are not equal.

Of course there are Architects in the SW but there is not an abundance of jobs for Architects in that area- that is a fact. It is not comparable to the professions of Teacher, Doctor as they are an absolute requirement. It is therefore very difficult to plan to live anywhere that is outside of the southeast.

The first house I bought was in inner city Leeds. I bought it from a family who were moving from one bad area to a marginally worse one so they could get a three bedroom house because their oldest child was starting secondary and they wanted her to have her own bedroom to do her homework in. Just like the comfortably off on this thread, they were prepared to do everything in their power to do the best for their children. It's just that because of financial necessity, their power to better their circumstances was limited in the extreme (dad was a manual worker, mum worked evenings in the local chippy). Their move still left them in the catchment for the worst secondary school in Leeds, which at the time had such a hopeless education department in the local council that central government took it out of local authority control and passed it to a private consortium. (Not that that was an improvement - the consortium was run by Peter Risdale, the man who took Leeds United from playing in the champions league to the verge of bankruptcy in about 3 seasons - apologies to those who do not follow football, but believe me, with that management record behind him, I would not trust him to organise a piss-up in a brewery, much less the schools for a whole city). Yes, there are huge numbers of people across the country for whom the black hole problem is genuinely unavoidable. If you are in a local area where rent/ mortgages are affordable in a decent catchment area with nothing more than a bit of forward planning and a switch from branded to supermarket economy baked beans, you are extremely lucky.

It is avoidable. It's called moving.

If you have a 3-bed house in an area with a less successful school, and you could only afford a 1-bed flat in the area with a successful school, then moving isn't an option.

Of course it is an option. It depends on your priorities. We can't have it all. You need to give up something. Either you lose a bedroom, or have smaller garden, or move to an slightly not so affluent area. Move out of the city a bit more. Further away from your dh's job.
There is always a sacrifice.
You may want another bedroom/room for your teenager to study. Someone else may take a smaller house, with smaller garden, to get nearer a good school.

None of us can have it all.
It depends on what you are prepared to compromise.
Of course you can move. We can all move.

"Not me BTW we sold our lovely house in a town because the schools were crap and moved to a village with a good school before getting pregnant".

lol.. schools go up and down very quickly. Our lovely primary school was good without standing features and now it is in special measures.

Thanks for all the replies! Fwiw - when I got pregnant I HAD planned to move closer to the better school. Something happened which left us unable to move, and now we simply cannot afford to. The house prices from where we live now to where the better school is go up by a minimum of 80k. How am I realistically expected to be able afford to buy a house that is at least 80k more than what I live in now?? Oh and my DS has another 3 years before school so I AM trying to plan ahead, but unless I come in to some money then I have zero chance of moving closer.