To get annoyed at "catchment area" school places

[Daiso]

Not even sure if the title makes sense however.....
I'd like DS to go to a school which is 2.5 miles away - there are 2 in that area, both with amazing OFSTED reports and great reviews from friends whose DC attend. Both of these outside my catchment area even though its really not that far.
The school just down the road is shocking, friends pulled DC out, not so great OFSTED etc etc.
I can't afford to move to the area where the better schools are as the house prices are astronomical. Just no chance whatsoever of being near.
AIBU to think it's unfair that I won't be able to send DS to that school as I can't afford to live in the area?
I think that everyone should be given a chance to send their DC to a school of their choosing -maybe by first come first served putting name down or by pre school attended (DS will be going to the pre school in the grounds of school I'd like but that makes no difference)

Get rid of faith and selective schools. Use the Scottish system where you are guaranteed to get into your catchment school. Like others have said, it's a preference not a choice so why bother with it now.
Did anyone have a choice in the 70s?

Schools can also change very quickly. In 2006 one near us was in special measures; fast forward to today and everyone wants their kids there. Meanwhile the local council estate primary has always been rated either satisfactory or good, but people still fall over themselves not to get in.

It is VERY simplistic to say that you have no right to a school place unless you live in the 'community'. Indeed, it is farcical to suggest that if you live 699 metres from a school you are not part of that community- are you kidding, that is about a block away? The problem where I live is the lack of schools. It is not a question of 'getting involved' and improving my local schools they are ALL oversubscribed, unless of course you are suggesting that I get together with those who don't belong to the 'community', as defined by living under 850 metres from the school, and physically build our own school??

My situation arose because we had tried to return to our flat (700 metres away) after we lived elsewhere but our tenants refused to move out. We had to find somewhere else to rent otherwise we would've been homeless, so we rented a flat nearer to the school than our owned one, to ensure our DS had a place at the school. We intended to buy the flat once our non moving tenants had moved out of our old flat and we could sell it but things didn't move quickly enough and our Landlord served us notice so that he could sell it. We were in a pressurised situation, I had also recently had my DC2 so we had to sort something fairly quickly on a budget that allowed us to buy a 2 bedroom flat in this area. Needless to say it was surrounded by outstanding schools but we couldn't move my DS until a place became available - it didn't.

I know that other areas are similar because between us we have relatives in North London and Oxford. The idea that you can move in preparation for the school application process is a little naive.

There is a serious shortage of affordable family homes where I live and therefore 2/3 bedroom flats are not cheap but are what a lot of families live in. My DP works in this city so what do you suggest we do- move away from an entire city because we can't afford to live next to any of these 'outstanding', oversubscribed schools. Neither can we afford a family home next to the 'Good' schools as they are often in suburban areas where the price of houses is out of our reach by 50,000. If we are going to have to live in a flat I'd rather it was near the 'outstanding' schools. We are the lucky ones as well, in that we are at least able to buy a flat.

What you're advocating Oblomov is not workable for many in my area and as is the case where my brother lives and my DP's relatives, these schools have now become the preserve of the wealthy.

If your local school is rubbish, DO something about it.

Is what some people say, some even suggest baking cakes, as if that helps anyone!

I tried to live by the above maxim and joined the PTA, then volunteered for 2 years for a morning a week as a parent helper to Y1.

Well, it made fuck all difference ( of course, duh, how could I have been so naieve).

Also, I agree somewhat with redhelen. I was shocked by the behaviour of some of the "rough " kids, also by how their behaviour affected the learning of the entire class and how much classroom control was required.

Kids are not all the same, and a child who comes to school with no breakfast or clean clothes, whose parents or arers don't give a damn and never bother with parents evening or homework, are never going to do as well. Not their fault, and it can be heartbreaking, but denying there is a difference in how these kids will do, regardless of how good a teacher is, is just politically correct speak that helps noone. At underperforming schools there will be a higher number of these neglected kids.

It is not about being MC or WC, imo, but there are some kids out there with a rough home life who are unlikely to do as well as the kid of involved parents ( however rich or poor).

red Children spend approximately 32.5 hours in school per week in term time.

If a child goes to bed at 8.30 (some will be earlier some later) and gets up at 7.00 they will spend approx 42 hours per week with their parents.

However this is assuming they do not sleep more (or less) and all outside school time is spent with parents, which it often isn't, after school clubs, friends etc.

But anyway, as described above, children spend, as a conservative estimate, 44% of their time in school, more if they sleep more or attend clubs organised by the school. So it is safe to say a school is likely to be a major contributor to a child's socialisation.

So schools do need to accept some responsibility for poor performance.

Gracie, 'Blackholes' and no 'sibling priority' may not be a problem in your village but It is undeniably a problem in lots of parts of the country.

Just to add I got my distances wrong in my current situation- All the 'local' schools are 'outstanding' and they are 800 metres and 600 metres but still not 'local' enough to be able to get into!

That is the 'Blackhole'.

RussiansOnTheSpree Mon 12-Aug-13 19:16:45

Kungfu Surely? Well, if you want to ensure that the shadows of 'people not like us' never blight your kids' paths, yeah. hmm

Where on earth did you get that from? I cannot possibly see that it would ever be fair to bump local children down the list for their nearest school in favour of children being transported in, most probably by wealthy parents, from outside the area.

The schools that people want to travel to are generally going to be the better schools, so removing the local requirement is going to do nothing but place parents who can pay for pre-school places and drive their children to school.

We have several good/outstanding village schools round here where removing the distance requirement would make life completely unworkable for less well-off, local families, because people from all over the place would be shipping their children in.

Favour parents who can pay etc. Not place.

Very entitled attitude. Unless you can afford private, children should go to nearest school. I am a hypocrite btw.

Kung fu - wealthy parents aren't actually slavering to send their kids to poor schools. And they live close enough to the good schools that they are there anyway. It's not wealthy kids people are worried about being bussed in - it's the ones from the poor areas. And you know it. Stop being disingenuous.

Goldenbear OP lives 2.5 miles from the school, she is not part of the community.
As for the sibling issue. As i said It's not a problem for several schools in my area, parents thought that it would be. It is not. The schools changed the criteria because there was a real issue with people playing the system, the local community were forced out.

Two of my local schools this year who allow sibling priority, one had a pan of 22 with 18 siblings of which three live in the village. The other school has a pan of 14 with 8 siblings of which two live in the village.
Lots of village children now forced to travel to school.

It's a real issue though isn't it.....Usually (not always) the best schools tend to be in the smartest areas, with house prices driven up by demand for school places...

IMHO it seems somewhat unfair that the children with the best home-circumstances generally get to snaffle the best chance of an education too...

Some of us are well educated but not rich (particularly those of us who live in London). We live in an area where the good schools are all, virtually without exception, in the affluent side of the Borough. We couldn't afford to live there and live on the 'borders' with the less-than-desirable part of the Borough. It was a real struggle to get our eldest into a decent primary school (we did eventually) because of this 'catchment' issue. We went to Appeal (didn't win though) and were offered places as two of the worst performing schools in the Borough - why would we want to let our child go to a dysfunctional school.

I really think the entire system needs reviewing as a matter of urgency. Really the lottery system is the only fair way. Yes, if an eldest gets in via lottery by all means let the rest of the siblings attend the same school, but let everyone else have an equal chance....

GoldenBear, Let me get this right. You were renting. in a nice area. And you chose this area, because it had a good school, among other reasons. You wanted to buy. You got your son into the good school. But he buying never worked out. Then you moved. Now you can't get into the equally good local schools. So you have to travel some distance, back to your old area, to the good school , that your son is still in.

Is this right? And your complaint is? Have you seen how ironic this is.
As if you are saying : "I was renting to get my son into the good school. Then I moved out of catchment". This is the VERY thing that most people complain, that people do, in order to get their children into the good school. You have done the absolute most criminal thing, as far as school application processes go.

And you claim that moving is not that easy? 5 years to move. In a 5 year period, people are unable to move? Really. I find that hard to believe. Why can they not move? Please give me the reasons, because I don't understand them. Are you seriously saying that people can't move, in 5 years. I disagree.
If you move to a house that you can afford, in an area that you can afford, I consider this a not THAT difficult thing to do. If you accept your budgetary constraints. When you decide to have children, you plan, what job you will be able to do, what childcare you may need. What you can afford. Where you want to live. Which schools could you/do you have a chance of getting into . Then you move. When your child is 1 or 2, or 3 or 4. 5 years you've got. To sort it all out. But you claim this is not possible.

Other people, help me out here. I can't be the only one, who once I realised that I was going to have a child, who was going to need to go to a school, thought about where it was that would be available to me.

Funny. I managed it. I know possible 100 people who have lived here for a long time, or moved, planned it all and sorted it all, prior to their children starting school.

And :
"There is a serious shortage of affordable family homes where I live and therefore 2/3 bedroom flats are not cheap but are what a lot of families live in. My DP works in this city so what do you suggest we do- move away from an entire city because we can't afford to live next to any of these 'outstanding', oversubscribed schools. Neither can we afford a family home next to the 'Good' schools as they are often in suburban areas where the price of houses is out of our reach by 50,000. If we are going to have to live in a flat I'd rather it was near the 'outstanding' schools. We are the lucky ones as well, in that we are at least able to buy a flat."

You can't afford to live where you want? You want to live in a nice area. With good schools. But you can't afford to. You want to live in an area that you can't afford.

Errr yeah? AND ? Join the rest of the population Love. My dh does a 50 mile commute to near Brighton for his latest job.
We live where we can afford to live.
I fancy living in Ascot, Hampstead or Kensington. But we can't afford it.
So were live here, where we can afford it.

You should try it, sometime. It makes life easier.

YANBU to moan but I don't agree with your proposals for changing the system as they're not really fair either.
It's U that housing costs so much, U that in many places people are priced out of where they grew up and U that things are so unequal in Britain. They keep us scared and competing with each other for advantage and it is rubbish.
I hope to be able to send my kids to a decent local school with a genuinely mixed intake that meets the needs of all its kids and avoid inculcating them into the ratrace early by tutoring them heavily to get them into decent schools but I imagine that I'm living in a dreamworld if I want to do that in Britain as there appears to be an educational arms race.

In my town there are two secondary schools, one in a slightly more affluent area, the other, nearer most of the "social housing". From when we moved here one always had a better name, and I chose to send my eldest to the one closest to home. He was fine, and did well because he was concientious and went on to 6th form and got his A levels. My other two children have followed , and both are achieving excellently.

They all went to the school with the "bad" name. In the 10 years we have lived here the school has had 4 head-teachers,been in and out of special measures and now (this year) has been rated as a "good" school. I have always thought it was good.

The other school? It has had its problems, changes of head-teachers ,been in and out of special measures and at its last Ofsted in 2011 was Satisfactory. Its exam results are now NOT better than the school my children attend....and yet...people still think of theirs as being the school with the "bad" name!!

Sometimes you have to find these things out for yourself. Just because your friends pulled their children out, doesn't mean it is a bad school...just that their children didn't get on there. Yours will probably be fine.

That depends hugely on where you live. Round here, some of the outlying villages aren't particularly affluent, but have excellent, small schools. There's a row going on at the moment about proposals to expand two of them, due to demand for places, meaning that two fairly small villages will have to cope with a large influx of schoolrun traffic from people who are able to travel for school, and their classes may double in size.

We're in a reasonably affluent village, but not in any catchement area. We would have benefitted hugely if distance wasn't a factor as we would have been much more confident of DS1 getting into the school which most of the children from our village and a couple of others go to. It is outstanding, and some years has been oversubscribed. The years when there haven't been enough places have been years when children from the next town over have applied for DS1's school, passing over their own local outstanding school for whatever reason.

The reason they can do that is that there are two towns, and two schools, a short distance apart. The area between the two schools is one of the poorer areas, but the children have a choice of two very good schools, possibly pushing out the village children, quite probably from wealthier families, from the other side of the area, who don't have a realistic second choice and who will then finish up, as in the case of someone in our village, being given a place in a school on the other side of the city.

So removing catchement, in favour of pre-school for example, would have suited us down to the ground, and probably placed us at a distinct advantage over more local children as DS1 was at the pre-school. We might even have had a shot at the very popular, tiny village school that would have been our first choice if its catchement area wasn't tiny.

I still don't think it's right.

Omg a lottery system is madness. I live within walking distance of my school. We walk everyday. Are you suggesting that I should drive 2 Miles plus to school?
My children play with the local children, should I drive them to play with school friends who live miles away?

It's horrific if you live in a big city I understand and feel for those in that situation.

Goodness this is exasperating- it is NOT always possible to go to your local school because people live in 'Blackholes' for 'local' allocation. Fuck all to do with entitlement.

Yes, these poor folk who can't afford to live next to the good schools- so bloody entitled aren't they?

Kungfupanda, the lottery system has been applied in Brighton for secondary school allocation with the purpose of social equality. The system you advocate is very biased towards people with money and can afford to buy property near a good school.

Oblomov we din't even look at houses that didn't have a good school. ( well before I even got pregnant)

Daftdame - of course schools are responsible for TEACHING children but to pretend that outside circumstances have no effect on this is living in cloud cuckoo land!

Again, it depends on the area. We have several very good schools in not particularly wealthy villages. If the distance was opened up, all that would happen is that families from the city, where school catchements are tiny, and housing prices are extremely high, would travel out to the villages and push out local children from their only realistic choice of school.

Many local families would then be screwed, as the public transport round here is almost non-existent, so you'd be relying on people being able to drive/having access to a car for the parent doing the schoolrun.

I know that other areas are similar because between us we have relatives in North London and Oxford. The idea that you can move in preparation for the school application process is a little naive.

Do you think so? I know many people like us who the minute they thought about ttc, started thinking about how they could afford it, what kind of accommodation do we need, how much time can we afford to take off work and what sort of school do we want. Then set about getting it together.

In our case we moved away from our home town to a commutable distance, eventually got new local jobs, rented until we knew the area well, then chose the best accommodation we could afford with one proviso - it had to be in catchment for a school we'd find acceptable. it took 2 years. I don't think we're alone in this. Perhaps it was drummed into me from an early age though, as my parents had to do this 40 years ago.

I agree there should be more good schools for people to choose from though.

goldenbear it's just unfortunate to live in a black hole. As simple as that.

:-(