to challenge a racist remark made by a ten year old ?

[hooochycoo]

A ten year old very well, I know remarked to me that Indians should all go home and stop trying to make little Indias in England. I was shocked and told them that that was a racist thing to say, said that they should do some reading about immigration and emmigration and that it wasn't nice to say things like that . I also tried to explain how if they went to other countries they'd find british people living there, making little Englands, that people lived all over the world. And that they shouldn't say these things when they hadn't travelled outside Britain.

I wasn't angry or shouting. I was amazed at what they were saying and insistent.They said that they knew already everything they needed to know already because they'd seen newsround and seen pictures of India, and that indians were going round killing people and blowing things up. I then said that they sounded bigoted and explained bigot, before the child's mother stopped me.

The child's mother is really angry at me and has said that that her child wasn't racist because she's too young and that she justified in saying those things because of a boy at her school that was indian who was mean to her and because of the news coverage of the woolwhich attack.
. and that I was completely out of order to say what i said. Apparently I attacked her child and was patronizing. She said a ten year old couldn't be racist because they are a child and compared it too a four year with a stutter, saying i wouldn't have told the four year old he had a speech impediment.

what do you think ? aibu?

i'm pretty gutted by the whole thing . hence this thread to work out what went wrong

I think what you have learnt is that this particular ten year old is not mature enough to have her own opinions and is parroting her parents, and by criticizing the child's opinions you have criticized her parents. Hence the objection to the patronizing tone, it felt aimed at mum not child.

Not sure I would have challenged the child quite so directly (but I would have challenged them) and I would not have used the word racist/bigot either.

I would have explored their views with them and tried to make them see that they are unreasonable and then I would have raised it with the mother. The whole Indian boy being mean thing is a smokescreen and clearly no justification for holding appalling views so having said the above I am not sure that I would have got anywhere with the mother as she sounds pretty prejudiced and misguided herself.

As a teacher this is what I do when pupils sometimes spout unpalatable views such as this (the last one I had of a similar ilk was the view that 'gay people can and should be cured' ) but sometimes you meet the parents and it all sadly clicks in to place.

I agree that the 10 year old isn't old enough to be racist herself. Just copying what they've heard.

My 8 year old assumes that all criminals are "brown people". Mustve picked it up from the news.

I regularly have friends chasten who are nearly 10 and I here stuff like this from them. I ALWAYS challenge it and their parents back me up as when with me - my rules. Yes the views come from the parents but they recognise that not everyone feels the same and that there is a time & a place to share it.

So when one of them in a very loud voice shared his views on Polish immigrants in a town centre I immediately challenged him and when he came back with his 'argument' I refused to get into debate with him in public. In private I explained that views like those can not be shared as and when they like as others find them offensive.

As I say I informed their parents and they backed me up... even though they had those views themselves.

Not saying that bigotry & racism is ok but using words like those is a personal attack to a child - much better to explain how having those views could affect them. At 10 they are only just at the beginning of taking what they know and forming own views so are unlikely to change their view if they are called names... Totally agree it needs challenging and consequences explaining.

Cor that makes me sound so sensible and calm but when he said it I was raging and hissed 'I suggest you stop talking right now before your words get us all into trouble young man' as there were a group of people speaking Polish or Latvian about a foot away and then death stared him when he opened his mouth Once in the car I was sensible adult again but at the time apparently I looked 'proper scary' I explained it was more 'proper scared' at offending a large group of people in one hit whilst on my own with 3 young boys!!

ILetHimKeep20Quid

It's a suitable explanation to give to a 10 year old.

YANBU to challenge what the child said, but YABU to have called the child a bigot. You need to separate out the things the child said - which were racist and bigoted - from the child who is still learning and developing as a person.

It doesn't sound like the child could have picked these views up from the mother, but somewhere someone has said something to put this into his/her mind. Ten year olds aren't babies but they are little sponges and soak up information like there's no tomorrow!

again

i didn't say the child was a racist or bigot. i said it was a racist thing to say, and it sounded bigoted. perhaps the words are too strong and emotive for people to hear the distinction. Maybe that was the problem

infact i'm starting to think it was definately the problem

OP didn't call the child a racist or a bigot. She said that it was a racist thing to say and that the child sounded bigoted.

Yes I think that was definitely the problem. Hope you manage to sort it out with your friend if you still want to.

I think you're right, OP. No matter how accurate, people bridle when they think they've been personally insulted.

"My 8 year old assumes that all criminals are "brown people". Mustve picked it up from the news."

Yep. That's what it looks like on the news!

Why do you say "assumes"? Surely he doesn't assume that any more now you've put him right?

I wouldn't have let it go unchallanged, I just couldn't have. If the mother pulled her child up on it there and then, even just to tell them to stop and that they would talk about it later, I would have kept out of it, but if the mother let it go at the time, and you have no way of knowing that it will be spoken about at some point, then letting it go would be condoning it. 10yo is old enough to learn about racism, if they don't already know.

As for the words, perhaps it was the problem, however, it WAS a racist thing, so you weren't incorrect! :(

Well, presumably the mother is quite happy for her 10 year old to join in adult conversation like this and express views? Because if she is, then the mother must also accept adults can politely disagree with her child, as you did.

Using 'racist' and 'bigoted' is probably the (ostensible) issue the mother has, but really, these views are if not from the parents, probably at least tolerated by them, so the underlying problem is possibly embarrassment at this mindset being revealed and criticised. The rationale for the child having those views was ridiculous-amounting to endorsement almost. I'd give both mother and child a wide berth, frankly.

Yanbu. You just encouraged them to challenge stereotypical thinking, which is a very valuable skill. I can understand if you had shouted or tried to punish her, but it doesn't sound like you did. Sounds like the mum also has a bit of a chip on her shoulder about immigration. Just ignore them.

And also, whoever made the comment about "little Britains" and not being so bright. Have you ever heard of magaluf or Ibiza?!

The mother needs to understand that if she fills her child's head with such loathsome views, the child will bear the consequences of expressing them - upset, shock, anger and people not wanting to be friends with her.

Children are busy trying to be friends with everyone and assume everyone does or should like them, whereas adults choose to congregate with like-minded people. So, the detrimental effect on a child of expressing hateful, offensive views likely to upset others, is far more damaging to them, than doing the same is to an adult.

I think saying 'saying that makes you sound like a racist and a bigot' is fine. It criticises the behaviour but makes the point that others will view the girl as 'a racist' and 'a bigot' if she carries on behaving like that. They will.

It is very worrying that the mother thinks discrimination against a whole class of people is ok because of the behaviour of one individual. Of course she doesn't think that, she already holds general racist views and is using that example as one more illustration. What she's explaining to her dd though, is different and is that individuals can be seen as representative of a group and massive assumptions made about everyone else in those groups.

I was quite politically aware and interested in all sorts of issues and capable of discussing them at ten. Most of my peers were not but all of them understood that being nasty to people because of colour, or anything, was not nice or ok and damming whole groups of people in this way would have been stamped on by peers and teachers - and parents.

I saw things in very black and white at that age though. If I believed a political view, I believed it and saw other views as wrong. Subtlety and complex perspectives and solutions came much later. So, it's probably best to focus on the personal level of upsetting people and being seen as unkind and unfair.

My 9 yo DD is the most PC person I know. I have never heard a comment from her that could remotely be classed as racist. My 8 yo DN however is vile.

They attend the same school and play in the same areas outside of school so have the same friends and social group. They watch the same programms on TV so the only conclusion I can reach is that my DN hears these disgusting views at home. And I'm going to assume they come from my dsis and her dp.

I think racist and bigott are strong words to use in any conversation about racism particularly in relation to a child. Even if they have expressed views. If the childs mother was there I would have looked to her to correct him. The same as if he swore or was badly behaved in some other way.

To apologise I think you need to step away from whether the child was wrong to say what he did and whether it was racist etc and apologise for reprimanding another persons child in the presence of the mother.

What he said was wrong. We know that. But he is not your child to deal with when his mother was present. If you don't like what he is saying then I would have a discussion with the mother about it but his views, no matter how offensive are his views. And probably borrowed from an adult or another child. If it the mothers views (or the fathers) that he is repeating then of course they are going to be embarrassed and angry over it. Not only are you criticising the child but also their views and their parenting by having conversations in front the child so he repeats them outside of the home. What people say and do in public are quite often very different to what they say and think in private.

But I would apologise for how you dealt with the child. But explain that you felt strongly about what he was saying, not just because it was racist but also because of the consequences for the child if he said that in different company, like at school etc. You can't suggest to her that she deals with it at home as that looks like interferring again, but you can hope that she does deal with it at home for the sake of the child.

And if she doesn't then I bet someone else does and it won't be an adult he knows and loves with his mum there for back up!

I think you did well op. the mum is clearly touchy about the subject. The idea of never challenging a ten year olds views is ridiculous.

10 year olds are certainly old enough to form racist opinions and use racist terms. I can assure you that when I heard my own son using the word 'Paki' (apologies) he didn't bloody well hear it in this house!
We had a very in depth chat about that one, turns out he heard the older brother of a friend of his use it, along with some other very nasty terms for people of other races. He doesn't see theses particular children anymore and 2 years later I have never heard him use any term like it since then.
OP I would have maybe had a word with the Mother in all honesty in a kind of "did you hear what he just said?" Type of way but either way he needed pulling up on it.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment of most of the posts on here I would still not have used the terms racist and bigoted in relation to what the child had said - even if they were not directly 'at' the child but rather about what they said. A ten year old child is still a child and use of these terms tends to close down debate rather than open it as you have seen with the mother.

If the child was 16 then use of these terms would be much more appropriate imo.

And I am a bit at the poster whose son assumes that all criminals are 'brown people' which is something they must have picked up from the news....really?

There are some things that cannot go unchallenged, and this is one of them. Well done, OP. 10 is the age of criminal responsibility and a child of that age needs to know right from wrong.