To not understand the way some people's perception of risk (specifically cars), especially in the UK.

[honeytea]

A couple of recent threads have made me wonder why some things are seen as very dangerous and to be avoided and some things are seen as acceptable even if statistics show they are infact dangerous.

There are so many health and safety rules about everything in the uk, warnings about swimming in lakes and rivers, the schools have huge fences and locked gates, people are warned not to share their bed with their babies but it is still acceptable to put children in forward facing car seats from a very young age.

I live in Sweden, here kids and adults swim in the lake, school groups swim in the lake, the schools are very open, no fences, their playgrounds are often the local park, new mums are encouraged to share their beds with their babies but the huge majority use rf car seats.

the child death rate due to accedents is lower in Sweden despite the lack of safty rules.

AIBU to think that the focus is on the wrong things?

I totally agree with you.

I think a large part of this discrepancy has to do with public liability; the local authorities / central government / schools don't want to be sued.

DD is in a RF seat and will be at least until she's 4 years old, but I had to get it from a Swedish website and it wasn't cheap.

YANBU about the rear facing seats. I'm in Sweden too and I was shocked to find that the main supplier of rear facing seats for the recommended 4 years was Britax, a British company, who at the time didn't sell them in the UK.

YABU in your comparison of perception of risk between the 2 countries. I find Sweden to be obsessed with health and safety to the point of insanity.

YANBU. Mine will stay rearfacing till they're 4. We have 3 besafe izi seats, and they were a bloody fortune but I decided it was worth it. They are massive and wouldn't fit in a lot of cars, which puts people off.

THIS explains everything very well, esp the video.

BTW. school fences only appeared after the Dunblane shooting, I am not saying it was a reasonable response but it was directly related and a very emotional time in the UK as we saw school shootings as a purely american problem until then.

i don't think this is true is it . I started school in the early seventies and there was always 10 ft high fences around all my local schools. The locking of external gates is probably a newer thing though.

Btw I agree with your points op.

I'd love to put the DC rearfacing, but you can't get seats for rf after 12 months here (Australia) as there aren't any extended rf seats which are legal to use here and they would void my insurance in a crash. You can only get isofix as of this year!

I am confused by your post; your OP mentions the perception of risk but then condemns people for using FF seats.

Have those people not calculated the risk and perceived it to be small? Yes, a RF seat will be marginally safer than FF in a collision, but the risk of me having that collision is still small and a risk I (and a lot of other perfectly inteeligent parents) am willing to take.

And afaik RF are good in a frontal collision situation, but frontal collisions are only a small % of actual collisions. REar collisions hoghest, but rosk of extreme injury/death smallest. Frontal collisions lowest, but risk of serious injury death high. Side impact collisions, on the other handare almost as common as rear impacts but cause more fatalities, and serious injuries than the others. How does a RF seat compare in this situation?

Ultimately though, as a parent, it is my decison entirely on the level of risk that I will take with my DC. Having them all FF in my very well side padded car is a decision that I am happy with.

YANBU

Rear facing car seats, beyond the new born car seats are mostly unknown about to the public, ditto the advantages of a rear facing car seat beyond 9 months.

This car seat is new to the market and may break many barriers, price comparable and widely available

www.toysrus.co.uk/Babies-R-Us/Travel-and-Pushchairs/Car-Seats-and-Boosters/Group-0-1-and-2/Joie-Stages-Carseat-in-Midnight(0100430)

I have not seen it in the 'flesh', but it is recommended on the car seat safety pages I am on, on FB. As Toys R Us do regular 20% discounts, that makes this seat very reasonable.

re the articles and vids about spine damage.

I was unsure about justifying the cost of a exrf seat, nearly 300 here un UK. just when a friend had convinced me to go ff..I came across s vid and article like thr one mentioned. It really hammered home to me the importance of it and cemented my own opinion on the matter. I cut back big time and saved my ass off forit because I knew it was important. ..and I tell anyone who will listenv about them now. They just aren't marketed here. .no one knows. I had to travel 45minutes to the one and only stockist in this city to get it! a cheaper alternative which is better than syabdard ff are the shielded seats, where the shield sits over the tummy, allowing the body to roll over it and massively reduce impact in an accident. They are half the price of rf and same as loads of well branded ff.

oh fgs. its nearly 2am and im on my phone. .sorry for the typos.

Napa cab - aRf seat is also safer than FF for side impact. Something to do with the seat turning to take the force, rather than flinging child sideways.

This does not look at all comfortable:

babyproducts.about.com/od/carseats/ig/Extended-Rear-Facing-Car-Seat/DKM-ERF-1.htm

Greythorne try reading the article and comments on the link you've posted!

mrsdimples thanks for that link I've been looking for an erf car seat for DS and I think I just found it. As my other dcs weren't 18kg until they were 5/6 it will be perfect. and my husband won't have a heart attack at the price

Sometimes people don't have a choice.

There isn't a rear facing car seat for 0+1 sold that would fit in our car. DD was kept rear facing till her head was no longer below the rim then moved into a forward facing seat.

When we bought carseats when DS1 was born we didn't know about rear-facing, it is as simple as that.

I have no problem with school fences. Schools are often near busy roads, and the fences mean that the children can be allowed free access to outside play without worrying about them being run over.

I kept my DS rf until he was 2.5 yo. I got lots of comments on how weird it was and that I wasn't being very nice not letting him see the road!

I then had a problem with the sunroof and the car took in water an the cat seat moulded and sadly couldn't afford a new rf one.

Parents should definitely be made aware how much safer it is!

Another thing is bike helmets! I see lots of kids riding bikes without helmets, that's insane!

In July 21 people drowned in Sweden, compared with 13 swimming in open water in the UK.

Perhaps work out those per capita rates before deciding where the risk perception is skewed?

I really want to keep DS rear-facing as long as possible. He's nearly outgrown his first car seat, but not sure if I can get another RF one in my car.

I've got a Citroen C1. I rarely use it (new, nervous driver who much prefers the train and walking). Is there one that would fit?

The other car he is in a bit more regularly is my mum's C3. Is there one that fits hers?

I have to say, I find the information on various car seats confusing (as does my mum). Mum is keen to put DS in a FF seat as she thinks that children much prefer seeing where they're going. She thinks I'm being OTT when I talk about RF until 4.

I agree with you. I was horrified recently to see a picture of my 9 month old neice forward facing when she is still clearly small and light enough to be in her infant carrier.

My SIL has a different opinion and thinks that I am babying my 3 and 4 year olds by having the rear facing still. They are rear facing because I know it's safer for them to be so, not because I still think they are babies.

It's all very well evangelising about rearfacing but all the expensive car seats in the world will do not a jot of good if they are not fitted correctly which includes not being suitable for the car in which they are installed (quoting my local car seat centre). That's a far bigger problem as far as I can see.

We will buy a rearfacing seat for DH's car but DD will have to face forward in mine when she grows out of her group 0 carrier because no ERF seats are suitable for my car, which would put her at significantly more risk than being in a properly fitted forward facer.

The law is changing on this, and children will soon have to be RF until they are 15 months. It's not long enough, but its a start. So many people put children FF before they are ready, I know several who did from 7 months - its ridiculous.

Seats should start appearing on the market soon. Legislation has just come in,but it will run alongside current car seat laws until 2015 (i think)

Sorry, its 2018.

More info:
www.which.co.uk/news/2013/07/safer-child-car-seats-on-the-horizon-as-i-size-debuts-325737/

ILikeBirds Sat 10-Aug-13 08:26:18
"In July 21 people drowned in Sweden, compared with 13 swimming in open water in the UK.

Perhaps work out those per capita rates before deciding where the risk perception is skewed?"

We'd have to consider that pretty well the whole Swedish population swims in the open- from toddlers to octogenarians, so comparing it to the UK is slightly problematic. I have known many Swedes who did not own a car or travel by car: I've never known one who didn't go swimming in local waters.

I don't think it is about being obsessed with health and safety per se: I think it's about what you consider essential to human wellbeing. It is human nature to tend to worry more about something that is seen as a necessary risk, and downplay the dangers of something that is seen as unavoidable.

Swedes would never dream of banning their teenagers from jumping into the local river or their primary school children from climbing trees, because they haven't worked out that you can live without those things.

The British otoh think of swimming in a lake or wandering around the woods as rather esoteric pursuits, along the lines of mountaineering or horse jumping. Car driving is a necessary risk, swimming is not.

It's all cultural.